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Original poster

Enforcing judgement options

56 replies

car1sberg · 08/08/2021 21:12

Hello,

I filed a case at small claims court against somebody, they didn't respond, so I was able to request judgement and this was issued a couple of weeks ago and again ignored so I now have enforcement options. I'm finding it all quite confusing and I'm not sure what to choose.

I'm thinking perhaps the ordering the debtor to attend court for questioning regarding their finances? It's £55 or £110 if delivered by a bailiff apparently but if they simply hand him the form is there any point?

To give a background - it's a dog breeder who failed to insure our puppy, who in turn was very poorly soon after we got him. He had promised to reimburse all vets costs but then nothing. We know that the breeder made over £30k from sale of the litter which would obviously be seen if he attended court with all of his financial information.

Can he just ignore this too? Can he just carry on ignoring everything?!

Thanks

OP posts:
BunnyRuddington · 08/08/2021 21:22

If you do an order for questioning, the Court will want to see that it has been personally served. This is because that if they do repeatedly ignore the order and don't attend and give the information, they can be arrested. So you can either serve it yourself on the Debtor and provide a statement or pay for the Court Bailiffs to serve the papers on them.

Be mindful however that there is a huge backlog in lots of Courts and some Courts aren't even processing Orders for Questioning yet.

It might be worth talking to a local High Court Bailiff and see if issuing a High Court Writ would be more effective.

Melonportal · 08/08/2021 21:24

I'd probably go for the quickest and easiest option - attachment of earnings if he's employed? If not, enforcement agents at his home should get his attention and might prompt him to pay up.

BunnyRuddington · 08/08/2021 21:29

Have a read of this on High Court Writs.

GU24Mum · 08/08/2021 21:34

Not what you want to hear but enforcing judgments is really hard, especially on someone else who either has "complicated" finances and/or ignores the process.

Before you throw more money at it, make sure you know what all the costs could be. It can be really galling but spending another £xxx to get someone having to pay you £1 a week for eternity ...... which they'll then default in...... might not be what you want to do. Sorry if this sounds defeatist but it's pretty realistic.

Original poster
car1sberg · 08/08/2021 22:34

@BunnyRuddington thank you. I did actually speak to local high court bailiff last week, and very nearly started that process, but the reason I didn't is because I don't trust the breeder is suddenly going to agree to pay now after ignoring thus far, and I don't think he'll have anything worth the bailiff taking towards our costs.. his house was pretty basic, for want of a better word, when we picked up our puppy. I was told the bailiff can't make him discuss finances at all, so I thought that route maybe wasn't worth pursuing?

OP posts:
Original poster
car1sberg · 08/08/2021 22:35

@Melonportal I don't think he's employed. He bred the litter of puppies at the beginning of the year and I presume is happily living off the profit. So I didn't think the attachment of earnings was logical in these particular circumstances. I just don't know which is!

OP posts:
BunnyRuddington · 08/08/2021 22:37

Sounds like you might be in a hiding to nothing. Like a PP has said, you could end up paying put in fees and never receive a penny. Make sure the judgement is registered so that it shows up in their credit file though.

If you don't want to issue a Writ, I really wouldn't bother with a Warrant of Control and it doesn't sound as if they are in paid employment so an Attachment of Earnings is out.

Original poster
car1sberg · 08/08/2021 22:38

@GU24Mum it's been so frustrating even just getting to this point. I was really hoping he would respond and we could meet at small claims court, with all of my screenshots etc showing he was happy to reimburse any fees, and that he had failed to insure our puppy despite advertising him as being etc. Alas, no. The thought of a pathetic payment plan annoys me too. Surely if he showed all his bank statements with the money he received from all the other owners, over £30k - he wouldn't be able to pay a measly couple of pounds per week?
The total cost of my claim is £5,100 and counting.

OP posts:
Original poster
car1sberg · 08/08/2021 22:40

@BunnyRuddington it's not that I don't want to go down the high court bailiff route, I'm happy to go down any route that will get me my money back, but I doubt he has anything lying around worth £5k. It's all in his bank, or was anyway!

OP posts:
Original poster
car1sberg · 08/08/2021 22:42

@BunnyRuddington how do I make sure the judgement is registered? Do I need to do something in particular?

OP posts:
GU24Mum · 08/08/2021 22:59

Sorry to sound depressing but it really sounds as though there's no realistic chance of you recovering anything other than (if at all) a derisory amount. Unless people either want to engage with the process or have income and finances which are clear and properly traceable, you really are likely just to be throwing good money after bad. You've said that it doesn't look as though he has vast quantities of recoverable assets so just because money went into a bank account, doesn't mean it's still there or that any number of scenarios could be contrived to mean that you won't get anything back.

The problem with these sort of claims is that you pay a reasonably small amount to lodge the claim then a bit more etc etc and then don't want to think that was wasted........ so pay for the next stage(s).

The reason debt collection agencies manage it sometimes is that they will have bought a whole set of debt cheaply and their business is knowing the rules and strategies inside out but also know what to pursue and what not to bother with.

Melonportal · 08/08/2021 23:26

If you have his address, could you check ownership of the property with the land registry and, if it's his, secure a charging order?

Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 07:29

@GU24Mum surely he's not able to just ignore the whole process? What would be the point of even having small claims/enforcement etc?

OP posts:
Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 07:30

@Melonportal I gather it's a council property.

OP posts:
Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 07:30

@GU24Mum could he just ignore the going to court for questioning?

OP posts:
BunnyRuddington · 09/08/2021 07:40

could he just ignore the going to court for questioning?

It could literally take months, or longer for you to get a copy of the document setting out his position and it's only useful if you are deciding high enforcement route to take.

If he really does live in rented accommodation, a charging order is out and bankruptcy is unlikely to get you anything.

If he doesn't work you can't do an attachment of earnings.

That just leaves a Warrant or Writ of Control and you've already spoken to a High Court Enforcement Officer.

I understand that dog breeders now have to be licensed by their local Council. Have you spoken to them and stated what's happened? It won't get your money back but might stop it happening to someone else. I'd also speak to Trading Standards.

BunnyRuddington · 09/08/2021 07:41

and it's only useful if you are deciding high enforcement route to take

Should say which enforcement route.

NiceTwin · 09/08/2021 07:49

I can't help from the court side but do check with you local council licensing department if she is licensed.
If he makes more than £10k profit or has more than 3 litters a year he should be licensed.
Some councils are better than others but since the 2018 welfare act, they have more power to clamp down on unlicensed breeders.

BuffySummersReportingforSanity · 09/08/2021 07:51

You bought a puppy from a gangster puppy farmer and you will never see a penny from him. He almost certainly doesn't live where you picked the puppy up from and that probably isn't his real name.

Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 08:01

@BuffySummersReportingforSanity I don't think you're quite accurate there, but I'm trying to be conscious what I say. I do have past threads about this on here.

OP posts:
BunnyRuddington · 09/08/2021 08:02

Oh and you can check that the judgement is registered by asking the Court or checking with Registry Trust Online.

It should stop him getting credit foot 6 years but if he's getting £30k for each litter and living in a council house, he's unlikely to need credit and as the PP said, it might not even be his house or name.

Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 08:02

@NiceTwin thanks, believe me I have done all of this! I've been in touch with every possible place regarding this, some are still ongoing. It's been a very intense, stressful few months. The money side is only part of it.

OP posts:
Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 08:03

I should add, if it's someone's first litter they can easily plead ignorance to requiring a license and receive nothing more than a letter reminding them to be more cautious of this next time. Great eh?

OP posts:
Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 08:14

@BunnyRuddington have PM'd you

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GU24Mum · 09/08/2021 08:42

OP, depressingly, ignoring the process especially if you don't have "conventional" finances and care about having a judgment against you irritatingly effective.

You've had a judgement awarded against someone who didn't actually put their case forward. If they get to a point where they engage with things, the first thing they're likely to do is apply to have the judgment set aside so you could have to spend money just to get back to where you are now or worse.

Unfortunately judgments and enforcements are two very different things - one tells you you "won" but the other is getting paid out and that's far trickier.

If you try to get the financial paperwork, you'll spend ages and ££ probably just to get something. It's likely to be incomplete and/or inaccurate. It's not the same as you having a claim against someone who is employed in an identifiable job where you can dispute what they say and reasonably easily prove that Mr X works in the hospital as a Band X nurse and they can trace that.

You absolutely can keep going but you're the one paying out for all of this with zero guarantee you'll even get the first sum back let alone anything else. If you're doing it "for the principle" you just need to think whether you'll really feel the same if you spend more and more money and still end up in the same place.

There are lots of people who you can enforce judgments against because tonics. prove their income and/or they won't want to risk their job/credit rating/house for the sake of a judgment. Your puppy breeder though is very unlikely to fall into that category.

I knows it's galling and depressing but you're probably far better trying trading standards, Rogue Traders or something like that.

Sorry for the multiple gloomy posts but I've done small bits of litigation and enforcement (but am not an expert) and have seen how these can go.