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Original poster

Enforcing judgement options

56 replies

car1sberg · 08/08/2021 21:12

Hello,

I filed a case at small claims court against somebody, they didn't respond, so I was able to request judgement and this was issued a couple of weeks ago and again ignored so I now have enforcement options. I'm finding it all quite confusing and I'm not sure what to choose.

I'm thinking perhaps the ordering the debtor to attend court for questioning regarding their finances? It's £55 or £110 if delivered by a bailiff apparently but if they simply hand him the form is there any point?

To give a background - it's a dog breeder who failed to insure our puppy, who in turn was very poorly soon after we got him. He had promised to reimburse all vets costs but then nothing. We know that the breeder made over £30k from sale of the litter which would obviously be seen if he attended court with all of his financial information.

Can he just ignore this too? Can he just carry on ignoring everything?!

Thanks

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Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 08:56

@GU24Mum thanks so much for taking the time to send that. You're right - absolutely depressing!
It's not out of principle to be honest, we very much do need our £5k back. This is on top of the amount we paid out for our dog too.
I've spoken to trading standards, the breeder's local council, various charities.. so many people!

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MurielSpriggs · 09/08/2021 18:49

Sorry to hear all this @car1sberg.

The problems of enforcing are good reason not to enter into any sort of arrangement for significant amounts of money unless you're confident that the other side is not a fly-by-night operator, or you don't mind losing the money.

If you want to be properly thorough then before you pay you need an invoice where you can Google for the name, address, check out the company, see if they own where they live. Virtually no one does this of course! But when you're getting yourself into a situation where a total stranger ends up owing you £5k it's really not a bad idea. Can you imagine a bank lending anyone £5k on the basis of a name and address scribbled on the back of a fag packet!

I've learnt this the hard way too!

Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 18:51

@MurielSpriggs thank you. The breeder does indeed own his property..

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AlternativePerspective · 09/08/2021 18:59

You’re likely on a hiding to nothing here. The reason why so many people don’t go to small claims is because there is rarely a favourable outcome.

You could however report him to the inland revenue for tax evasion, which while it won’t get you your money back, will ensure that his finances are well looked into.

MurielSpriggs · 09/08/2021 19:10

Ok, that's very different! In that case you've got a very good chance of success. If he won't pay initially you can get a charging order against his house. This is like a mortgage. He will suddenly need to sit up and engage. Because (like a mortgage) if he doesn't pay you, then you can force a sale of his house, and your debt and all the costs of recovering it get deducted from the proceeds.

(From what you'd said earlier I had the impression that it was rented.)

roxyk0303 · 09/08/2021 19:25

I mean this in the nicest possible way, and speaking from experience.... is there any point?

You've already said he has nothing for the bailiffs to take and if he doesn't work, the money he made from the litter is probably long gone now. They can't take from him what he doesn't have.

Is the amount you are trying to recover worth all the extra money you are spending and the stress it's causing when there is a chance you won't get it anyway?

Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 19:38

@MurielSpriggs thank you. I did think he may not have owned his house but some digging today shows he does.

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Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 19:40

@roxyk0303 well we are still feeling the effects financially of quickly gathering together enough money to cover vets fees within days of getting our puppy. He was insured by us of course but that didn't kick in for illness for 2 weeks. We absolutely do need a this £5k back. So far I've paid £185 to start the small claims process, plus anything else from now..

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Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 19:41

@roxyk0303 sorry meant to add, not getting our money back is just as stressful as this process to be honest.

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MurielSpriggs · 09/08/2021 20:31

[quote car1sberg]@MurielSpriggs thank you. I did think he may not have owned his house but some digging today shows he does. [/quote]
Good news! It's a while since I've been involved in anything like this, but you're likely to be better off going straight for a charging order now. It's the enforcement option with proper teeth.

BunnyRuddington · 09/08/2021 20:41

Agree, if he owns a property you may stand a better chance with a charging order, assuming there is some equity.

Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 21:16

@MurielSpriggs @BunnyRuddington it seems like it may be the way forward but it also seems like there's lots of different elements to it, all at a cost no doubt. Different orders etc related to it? It was a bit of information overload when I read up on it.. I just wonder if the courts will laugh at me trying to get a charging order against his house with the debt only being £5k? I'm learning as I go, totally clueless tbh!
Appreciate the help so so much, thank you.

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Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 21:17

@BunnyRuddington @MurielSpriggs does it matter if he has no plans to sell the house anytime soon?

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BunnyRuddington · 09/08/2021 21:24

I just wonder if the courts will laugh at me trying to get a charging order against his house with the debt only being £5k?

There's no minimum limit for a Charging Order.

MurielSpriggs · 09/08/2021 21:29

[quote car1sberg]**@BunnyRuddington* @MurielSpriggs* does it matter if he has no plans to sell the house anytime soon?[/quote]
It doesn't. You can apply to force a sale, although that's in the discretion of the judge, and I don't know what your chances would be.

But even if you cannot force a sale now the worst case scenario is that you have invested around £100 (the cost of a charging order) for a pretty-much guaranteed return of £5,000 plus interest at some point in the future when he does sell. And the satisfaction of knowing he hasn't got away with it.

BunnyRuddington · 09/08/2021 21:49

Just to add to Muriel's post. The interest rate used to be 8% pa. not sure what it is now.

So if he didn't sell for 5 years, you'd be owed over £7k.

He might just remortgage though so there's no equity.

Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 21:55

@MurielSpriggs but he may never sell.. he's late 50s at a guess, lives his own, I would doubt he has any plans to move ever tbh Sad

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Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 21:57

@BunnyRuddington @MurielSpriggs is there any part of a charging order than would make his want to just pay up now?

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Original poster
car1sberg · 09/08/2021 21:58

@BunnyRuddington he doesn't appear to have a mortgage (according to today's digging) so owns the house outright.

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MurielSpriggs · 09/08/2021 22:04

[quote car1sberg]**@BunnyRuddington* @MurielSpriggs* is there any part of a charging order than would make his want to just pay up now?[/quote]
The unpaid CCJ will blight his credit record for six years, although that's true already with no further action from you.

The main force of a charging order comes from the threat of losing your home. If he's really likely to sit it out until a care home beckons, then it depends on how likely it is that you might get an order for sale. If he's living there in poverty with his elderly mother and six children then no chance! But beyond that I don't know what your chances are.

MurielSpriggs · 09/08/2021 22:06

lives his own

I missed that - I think you'd have good chance of forcing a sale then, but that's just a guess, and as you've said that would be a further court application (albeit the cost of which would be added to the amount of the charging order).

BunnyRuddington · 09/08/2021 22:13

He might just cough up the money if you apply for a charging order. Some do. They can contest the application for a charging order and this would mean a hearing in his local court, possibly at short notice and in person.

NiceTwin · 09/08/2021 22:18

@car1sberg I did a quick search but couldn't find anything.
How is puppy now? Is he/she better?
Did they ever find out what was wrong?
And finally Grin, what breed is it?

Original poster
car1sberg · 10/08/2021 07:11

@NiceTwin thank you, our puppy is very well now though still on medication for now. We did quickly find out what was wrong, it was the same with about half of the litter actually, some worse than others. All avoidable had them been looked after properly Sad sorry I'm not wanting to give anymore specific details on here. Thank you again!

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Original poster
car1sberg · 10/08/2021 07:16

@BunnyRuddington @MurielSpriggs I gather there is a month to pay the money before the CCJ stays on file for 6 years - do you think it's worth emailing to him to say if it's not paid by then (only a few days left) that I'll be continuing with enforcement action?

Is a CCJ really a nightmare to have or might some people not care anyway?

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