Family Law Advice!

[JoJo2106]

Can anyone help with some advice please?

Currently have a CAO already in place for my 3 year old son, ex partner has every weekend at the moment and I am wanting to change it to alternate weekends once he starts school next September so we can have quality time on a weekend to do things together and ex is refusing.

I have attended a MIAM appointment and have just heard back today that my ex partner is unwilling to do mediation, I will post exactly how it was worded:

We confirm that Mr. X has indicated he does not feel mediation will be beneficial until your employment status has changed as that will have a bearing on any arrangements to be made. He is therefore not wanting to arrange a mediation assessment at this stage.

I am signed off work on a long term basis due to health reasons, I wasn't aware me working or not would have any relevance to me been awarded alternate weekends, as 5 days a week I will just be doing school runs and still have no quality time with DS.

Could anyone in the know please confirm if I'm thinking along the right lines.

Thanks x

The courts will absolutely review any contact arrangements when there is a change in circumstances like a child starting school. He has refused mediation so I would consult a solicitor. If there was domestic abuse you may be able to get legal aid.

@Allllchange yes I had a free 30 minute appointment with a solicitor and they told me I should be having alternate weekends once DS is in school otherwise I would just be doing school runs 5 days a week and thats it. They said a child needs quality time with both parents, they were the ones that said to get the ball rolling now with mediation as the court system is all backed up due to covid.

But I'm more thinking about his reason for refusing mediation about ny employment status, I didnt think that would make any difference to be honest as i would still get no quality time with ds working or not I'd just be doing school runs and he would have every weekend.

The bar for getting out of a MIAM is extremely low, they've just accepted whatever bollocks he's said so you're free to progress to a court hearing.. The court won't be remotely interested in your working pattern if all you're asking is for every other weekend with your child once he starts school. It's a very reasonable, straightforward request. Be ready to also negotiate on what school holidays should look like, Dad would typically get half of all holidays.

@MargotEmin yeah I couldn't believe it to be honest, I don't think hes had any intention of mediating and has just said anything to get out of it. He told me a few weeks ago he will never agree and told me to take him back to court. Apparantly he will be "ready" as he knows so much more about court now lol.

Thank you I was hoping that was the case and my employment wouldn't affect it, he knows I am medically signed off and why so I think hes just said that to get out of it as he wouldn't agree in mediation anyways.

Yes I have already offered him alternate weekends, a Wednesday and half of all school holidays. We already share Christmas and sons Birthday, he is refusing point blank. Just didnt think we would be back on court again so quick its only been 2 years. And I have been amicable with him and changed things around for him to accommodate his job etc. For example his summer holiday contact last year, I agreed for him take one of the weeks in February of this year because of his job. I didn't have to do that but I did, and theres been other stuff too. I've sent him photos of ds on his first day of nursery even tho we are only to communicate in contact book. I've tried to be amicable and this is the crap I'm getting back.

Keep being classy and fair minded, don't go low however much he goads you. Maybe ask to be referred to the SPIP programme if you haven't done it already.

Oh and best of luck!

@MargotEmin yes we have done the SPIP, he clearly learnt a lot from it lol.

No I'm not going to let him get to me, I think what I'm asking is reasonable and hopefully the courts see that too. He is not been child focused at all.

Thank you

To be fair.. I wouldn't be happy to lose that amount of time with my child either if I was him.

I would look to offer

Week one

Sunday morning - Tuesday morning drop off with you you
Tuesday pick up - Friday drop off him

Week two
Friday pick up - Sunday aft you
Sunday aft - Tuesday morning drop off with him
Tuesday pick up - Friday drop off you
Friday pick up to Sunday morning him

And cycle like that

That way you're both sharing the school run load and getting weekend time both weekends

@loopyapp the only issue there is he mainly works away Mon to Fri and he can't do midweek at all. I've discussed this with 2 solicitors I spoke with and they both said I shouldn't be penalised for his job and it should be alternate weekends so DS is getting to spend weekends with both of us, the thing is we have been out of court 2.5 years and hes had plenty time to change his job and work for a firm that doesn't include working away so he could do a more 50/50 arrangement but he hasn't so it doesnt seem to be a priority.

The thing is if I never ever have a weekend with DS for the next decade I will just be seen as a carer, the one who gets him up takes him to school and picks him up again, feeds him an puts him to bed 5 days a week while his dad gets every single weekend to do fun stuff. The solicitor said the courts don't look at it through the parents eyes they look at what's in the childs best interest, and quality time with both parents is what is in a childs best interest. I can't even have a day away with DS or even go away for a holiday as hos dad has every weekend and if I went away it would be on his time so I'd be breaching the order. It needs changing for sure, but theres no way I am just doing school runs 5 days a week and that's it.

His work schedule is a big wrinkle, but you are correct it shouldn’t stop you from having weekends.

Just to show what his perspective might be getting at…

Is your work always m-f 9-5 or when you return might your schedule involve evenings and weekends and the custody schedule need to reflect that? If so, it really doesn’t make sense to go through this difficult process twice.

I would want more time than a wednesday in exchange for the lost weekend. But I could come back in mediation with a plan to gradually increase to something closer to 50:50 as the child gets older.

@Micemakingclothes I am long term sickness benefit, have a few complex medical issues so I won't be returning anytime soon. He knows I am medically signed off and why. So I still would need alternate weekends in place when ds is at school as i have no idea when I would be returning to work.

The Wednesday is in place already but he can't do it as he works away. But I will still keep it in place just incase he ever can do it. And I would be offering half of all school holidays.

Tbh him saying he won't do mediation unless your job situation changes won't be looked on kindly by the court. I'm presuming he has been controlling or abusive in the past? They would have more respect for him had he said that he doesn't want to reduce his time with his child but been willing to do mediation to discuss it. That doesn't mean they wouldn't agree you shouldn't be doing just the school runs and no weekends. Hope it goes well for you.

[quote JoJo2106]@loopyapp the only issue there is he mainly works away Mon to Fri and he can't do midweek at all. I've discussed this with 2 solicitors I spoke with and they both said I shouldn't be penalised for his job and it should be alternate weekends so DS is getting to spend weekends with both of us, the thing is we have been out of court 2.5 years and hes had plenty time to change his job and work for a firm that doesn't include working away so he could do a more 50/50 arrangement but he hasn't so it doesnt seem to be a priority.

The thing is if I never ever have a weekend with DS for the next decade I will just be seen as a carer, the one who gets him up takes him to school and picks him up again, feeds him an puts him to bed 5 days a week while his dad gets every single weekend to do fun stuff. The solicitor said the courts don't look at it through the parents eyes they look at what's in the childs best interest, and quality time with both parents is what is in a childs best interest. I can't even have a day away with DS or even go away for a holiday as hos dad has every weekend and if I went away it would be on his time so I'd be breaching the order. It needs changing for sure, but theres no way I am just doing school runs 5 days a week and that's it.[/quote]
But what you're suggesting means literally halving his (already limited) contact with his dad because you feel its not fair that you don't get weekends.

How is that supporting his relationship with his dad?

The hours after school can be whatever you want them to be. We go swimming, out for dinner, cinema, picnics in the park, play dates and so much more.

If you want weekends away plan them ahead and unless your ex has an unbelievable amount of annual leave you will have the bulk of mon-friday in the holidays.

I think you need really consider that you are suggesting that your son only sees his dad from the age of 4, 4 or 5 days a month because you dont wanna be a care taker.

@loopyapp excuse me??? I don't wanna be a care taker, I am a care taker and have no issue with that, the issue here is that my son and I will get no quality time together whatsoever apart from half of the school holidays and if his dad had every weekend I wouldn't even have full weeks of the holidays I would get Mon to Fri, his dad would carry on having every single weekend plus half of all the holidays, except he would get full weeks of the holidays as he would have weekends too. 2 solicitors have both said I shouldn't be penalised for his work choices. He could easily try and find another firm where he doesn't have to work away but in 2.5 years he's chose not to.

In reality DS will be at school 6.5 hours a day we would get home around 4, he would have his evening meal, bath and he is in bed for 7.30 so where would I find the time to go and have picnics on a night? I'm not doing it to be vindictive, I just want quality time with my own child. As I've said the best interest of the child is quality time with both parents and he would not be getting that by having every single weekend with his dad. If he had a job that wasnt working away he could see him midweek etc.

I've been nothing but amicable with him and have never stopped contact or anything and have changed all sorts of things around to accommodate his job, unfortunately the favour is not returned and this is what I get. The second solicitor I spoke to said 1 parent been awarded every weekend is so rare and was very confident I would get the alternate weekends. Why should DS miss out on weekends with me and holidays etc because of his dads job. And remember it is the childs best interest not the parents. So I think I will go with the solicitor's advice.

And you say if I want weekends away plan them in advance? How when I don't get weekends? That is the whole issue here.

@Allllchange you would presume right, yes this is all about control. Yes I agree, he could have at least attempted mediation, after all it does say in our current CAO that if there are any future disagreements we are to attempt to resolve them in mediation, and he has totally refused. The court isn't going to be happy with that.

Thank you very much

[quote JoJo2106]@loopyapp excuse me??? I don't wanna be a care taker, I am a care taker and have no issue with that, the issue here is that my son and I will get no quality time together whatsoever apart from half of the school holidays and if his dad had every weekend I wouldn't even have full weeks of the holidays I would get Mon to Fri, his dad would carry on having every single weekend plus half of all the holidays, except he would get full weeks of the holidays as he would have weekends too. 2 solicitors have both said I shouldn't be penalised for his work choices. He could easily try and find another firm where he doesn't have to work away but in 2.5 years he's chose not to.

In reality DS will be at school 6.5 hours a day we would get home around 4, he would have his evening meal, bath and he is in bed for 7.30 so where would I find the time to go and have picnics on a night? I'm not doing it to be vindictive, I just want quality time with my own child. As I've said the best interest of the child is quality time with both parents and he would not be getting that by having every single weekend with his dad. If he had a job that wasnt working away he could see him midweek etc.

I've been nothing but amicable with him and have never stopped contact or anything and have changed all sorts of things around to accommodate his job, unfortunately the favour is not returned and this is what I get. The second solicitor I spoke to said 1 parent been awarded every weekend is so rare and was very confident I would get the alternate weekends. Why should DS miss out on weekends with me and holidays etc because of his dads job. And remember it is the childs best interest not the parents. So I think I will go with the solicitor's advice.

And you say if I want weekends away plan them in advance? How when I don't get weekends? That is the whole issue here.[/quote]
You literally refered to yourself as just a carer if he continues to have every weekend. Read your first reply to.

I have 4 boys, 1, 6, 10 and 12. They come home at the same time as yours and the wee two go to bed at the same time or there about and because we want to, and employ some forward planning we have lovely active week nights.

If you and your ex planned ahead and communicated you could organise some time over a weekend for going away.

However as you point out you're going to have Monday to Friday every holiday! Most places that do family holidays do 4 night stays Monday to Friday.

I honestly cannot see in your posts that literally only refer to you, what you want and how it's not fair to you is child centred.

Your time with your child has as much quality as you want it to.

Needless to say if the shoe were on the other foot you would not accept 60-70 days out of 365 with the child you share (not yourl with your ex.

@loopyapp yes because that is all I will be, his dad wouldn't do the carer role would he, he would just be the fun parent every weekend. And it was the solicitor that worded it that way, he said your child will just end up viewing you as a carer through the week and his dad as the fun parent. Technically he's right .

Well I've tried to mediate with my ex hes refused, sent messages hes refused to discuss, just told me to take him back til court and he will be ready for it. Is that child focused. So no my ex and I cant communicate as he wont, and he would also never give up a weekend so ds and I could have a weekend away either.

This isn't about me its about my son Been able to have quality time with his mother on a weekend, something he is entitled to. So thanks for all your advice but I think I will listen to the 2 solicitors I spoke to, they have both agreed with what I'm saying and that it's pretty much a standard CAO. Obviously every case is different. Maybe he should change his job an ho for 50/50? Somehow I think he won't as he hasn't in 2.5 years and he wants to keep the fun weekends, not the hard work midweek. All I am asking for is he gets a weekend, I get a weekend and we split the school holidays down the middle. And his Wednesday contact is still there if he wants it. Don't think that's unreasonable at all what I'm.asking. So I take it you get no weekends with your children whatsoever? How could I take my son abroad if I wanted to for a week? No I couldn't, but his dad can. Lovely.

Why not offer him alternate weeks as you need to go back to work? He’ll have to deal with school runs and childcare - that’ll shut him up!

@BumbleFlump he mainly works away Mon to Fri so wouldn't be possible really. He could look for another job so he could have a more 50/50 arrangement but in the 2.5 years we've been out of court he hasn't so I don't think its w massive priority for him somehow.

In CAOs normal weekly arrangements are suspended for the sharing of school holidays, so you would get full weeks, and can argue a 2/1 week split during the summer, e.g. you the first two weeks, father the next week, then you one week and father the final two weeks, or any other combo of that which you choose, depending on what you have planned for summer holidays.

This is standard so both parents can go away if they wish.

Also you not working has no bearing on weekend arrangements once the kid is at school - you won't get it changed right now as you are at home Mon-Fri so have plenty of time with the child (e.g. there is no obligation to go to nursery if he does, so that could be cut out). Although, you could perhaps argue for at least one weekend in three for example. You won't know until you apply.

No point in delaying it, your ex isn't going to agree so it'll take anywhere between 6-9 months or more to get an arrangement in place - potentially longer given the pandemic and delays.

[quote JoJo2106]@loopyapp yes because that is all I will be, his dad wouldn't do the carer role would he, he would just be the fun parent every weekend. And it was the solicitor that worded it that way, he said your child will just end up viewing you as a carer through the week and his dad as the fun parent. Technically he's right .

Well I've tried to mediate with my ex hes refused, sent messages hes refused to discuss, just told me to take him back til court and he will be ready for it. Is that child focused. So no my ex and I cant communicate as he wont, and he would also never give up a weekend so ds and I could have a weekend away either.

This isn't about me its about my son Been able to have quality time with his mother on a weekend, something he is entitled to. So thanks for all your advice but I think I will listen to the 2 solicitors I spoke to, they have both agreed with what I'm saying and that it's pretty much a standard CAO. Obviously every case is different. Maybe he should change his job an ho for 50/50? Somehow I think he won't as he hasn't in 2.5 years and he wants to keep the fun weekends, not the hard work midweek. All I am asking for is he gets a weekend, I get a weekend and we split the school holidays down the middle. And his Wednesday contact is still there if he wants it. Don't think that's unreasonable at all what I'm.asking. So I take it you get no weekends with your children whatsoever? How could I take my son abroad if I wanted to for a week? No I couldn't, but his dad can. Lovely.[/quote]
Honestly.. And you won't like this.. We do things very differently.

We use a method called nesting. No one has "set" times with the children. The children have one home and we orbit around them and their needs.

I know I'm lucky that I get on so well with their dad and that we both agree on a parenting method that we feel is best, however even if I hated his very bones I wouldn't ever expect him to choose between job security or time with his child.

If you have half of the holidays that would include 3 weekends of the summer as he would be with you for 3 full weeks. Plenty of time to abroad

Basically there are solutions to all the issues you throw up as to why you're justified in removing your child's father 2 thirds of the year but you've made up your mind and don't want to consider them.

As I said ( and you didn't answer) how would you feel if your ex only allowed you 60 days a year with your child?? Can you really blame him for his "see you in court" comment??

Imagine this post from his perspective:

"I am a working dad of 1 child starting school in Sept. Currently he comes to me every weekend as my job means I am often away Monday to Friday. I have worked hard to establish my role within the company and it provides job security, a roof over mine and my son's head and maintenance for His upkeep at His mother's.

His mother doesn't work at present owing to long term sick leave and does all care Monday to Friday.

She has tried to force my hand through mediation to give up every other weekend - literally halving the contact my son gets with his father at the challenging time that is starting school.

Her reasoning is she feels she deserves some quality time with the child and to be able to take him abroad when she wants.

I have decided our best route is to go back to court. Is this reasonable or should I just hand over half my time my young child?"

I should imagine people would be advocating him to hold onto his precious time with his child.

@JustAnotherLawyer2 that's good to know that it's full weeks in holidays, thank you for that.

Yes DS is in nursery 3 days a week, moving up to 4 days in September, but No I wouldn't be asking for it now it would be for when DS starts school, yes the only reason I've started the process so early as the solicitor's I spoke to said to start it now as covid has caused a lot of delays etc and ay least it will be in place for when ds starts school at least.

No they wouldn't @loopyapp. What a load of ridiculous tosh you spout.

I would never advocate a parent having all the weekends. I'm both a birth and step mum. And have been a stepchild.

Your ex is wholly unreasonable and will have an incredibly hard job to convince any court that he should have all weekends once your child is at school.

Just to give an indicator of how bad court delays are right now. My OH put an enforcement in after his ex once again stopped contact. That was November. It is listed for August! 9 months!!! Unbelievable really. Most definitely not child focused to have contact stopped for that long because of court delays (and the ex - intractable hostility).

loopyapp is talking bollocks. No court is going to award one parent every weekend. If exh wants more time with the dc he needs to change job tbh so that he can have some weekdays. It’s not in a child’s interests to have no down time with his mum. And that is how the court will view it.