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Legal matters

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Mothers bank accounts

59 replies

Justjackbutterfly · 12/04/2021 18:56

Can anyone give me some advice please.
Found out my older brother (only us 2 siblings and mother 93 is a widow) has had his name added (a couple of years ago) to all my mothers bank accounts 😥 bro and I are both POA for mum who has a will with her solicitor stating everything (house & money etc..solicitor has copys of all bank books/ accounts but when they were only in mums name..account numbers are still the same) is to be split between my brother and I. Brother and I share looking after mum but brother pays her bills etc. I have a sinking feeling about that when mum dies he will not be truthful about the money..mum is frail so dont want to upset her as brother can be quite bossy ☹

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Justjackbutterfly · 12/04/2021 20:50

It's just his name along with mums name..no POA on it 😥

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Justjackbutterfly · 12/04/2021 21:07

Mum can't get out of the house due to ill health and is quite deaf so can't hear on the phone ..would someone from the bank do a home visit on a day I am there? As mum would tell them that she only wants brother to access to her accounts for paying bills/ getting money out of cash machine for food shopping etc? so sorry to keep asking but I have just found all this out today and I dont know what to do?

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Justjackbutterfly · 12/04/2021 21:14

Looking on an old statement it has mums name first then brothers name underneath and is in mums address...no recent statements to be seen!

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Justjackbutterfly · 12/04/2021 21:16

Her bank savings book account has her name on and underneath has my brothers name. my brother takes it into bank to get updated with the interest once in a while

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Justjackbutterfly · 12/04/2021 21:18

She has 1 x bank book account and 3 x other type of accounts..all with brothers name on as well as hers...same bank and has been with said bank for years and years

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MyOtherProfile · 12/04/2021 21:21

Oh dear. Definitely speak to a lawyer. People do strange things for money.

CrotchetyQuaver · 12/04/2021 21:27

Well it might be ok. I do a lot of bank transfers for my dad at his request on his banking app. Hes scared of computers so wouldn't do it himself. Happy to get me to check things on the app for him though. We went into the branch together one time sorting out my late mother's affairs. I don't have financial POA my brother does but he's abroad. They mentioned that I could be added to his account if he wanted me to be. It may be ok, you never know.

Justjackbutterfly · 12/04/2021 21:28

Would It be better to go to mums solicitor as her and my late father has been with the same firm for well over 30 years..they have the will/ house deeds etc

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Justjackbutterfly · 12/04/2021 21:30

@CrotchetyQuaver...thank you I am phoning the bank tomorrow...I hope so as mum will be devastated if calls not ok

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cerealgamechanger · 12/04/2021 21:46

When you next visit your mum, could you record her (on your phone) saying all this- that he's only on the account to sort out bills? That way should anything happen to her (I hope not for a long time yet) and brother turns out to be a CF, at least you'll have evidence of her intentions. I don't think I'd be happy about your SIL being an executor tbh. It all seems a bit convoluted.

mummatoI · 12/04/2021 21:49

Depends what bank it's with and their rules. I work for a high street bank and to add someone to an account we have to have the original account holders permission. And you can't be a POA and an account holder, it's one or the other so he wouldn't have been able to add himself. In the event the worst happened to your mum the POA ceases immediately. Being a joint account holder, even after your mother has passed away, he'd be able to access money in the account and still use it as normal! If it was just the POA registered her accounts would just be frozen.
Also once a death certificate is seen and it's been processed then the account would revert to the surviving persons name.

Obviously I can't speak for your mums bank but I know we don't get involved in family politics, and as your mum would have had to agree to it there's not much you could do! Your best bet is to find out when he was added to the account and then speak to a solicitor!

Musicaltheatremum · 13/04/2021 07:12

He can have access to the accounts so he can pay bills but should not be on as a joint account holder. My partner has poa for both his parents and can access their accounts on line and can pay bills. He accesses their account through his own login so you can see when the attorney spends money and he also has a debit card for the account but he keeps meticulous records of what each transaction is for.

Remember to take ID with you if you go into the bank.

Pansypotter123 · 13/04/2021 07:37

Does your mum still have mental capacity and would she understand the significance of adding your brother as a joint account holder?

The bank may not even speak to you about those accounts unless and until you lodge the POA(s) with them.

Even then, assuming your mum had capacity, the decision to add your brother to the accounts may be accepted as a perfectly valid decision for her to have taken.

Is the POA joint and several - ie can you make decisions independently - or joint - ie all attorneys have to make decisions together?

Speak to the bank, certainly, about this issue and ask about registering the POA with them.

Thereafter, ask if there's any way the decision to add your brother to the account could be re-visited as the intention seems to have been to enable access to the account for the payment of bills and a general overseeing of your mother's finances. Not for him to become joint account holder (and possibly sole beneficiary further down the line).

Forgive me, but do you think this was a deliberate ploy by your brother, or has he (and your mum) simply acted naively in the honest but mistaken belief that they're doing the right thing?

Does he understand how the POA operates?

Also, could sister in law be meddling here? You say she's executor too.

Good luck.

Pansypotter123 · 13/04/2021 07:41

I meant to add, I operate my inlaws' accounts in the way @Musicaltheatremum describes, also keeping scrupulous notes, even down to the dates and times of any phone calls I make to them when I have carried out any transactions within their accounts to advise them of what I have done.

DogsSausages · 13/04/2021 11:10

Does mum have the bills and bank ststements sent to her address. Would itbe easier for her to set up direct debits then there wont be any bills to pay. You need to read her poa paperwork to see if she agreed to having help with her finances. Does she have mental capacity to still understand and make decisions around her money. I doubt the bank will see her at home. I dont see why his name is on the books. You need to ask if they are all joint accounts.

Palavah · 13/04/2021 14:01

Your mother's bank is likely to have a Vulnerable Customer team.

Check your POA details, see if it is registered with the bank and if not, do so. Try to speak to the Vulberable Customer team and see what they can offer in the way of support for her affairs.

MyOtherProfile · 14/04/2021 07:04

Did you manage to speak to the bank, OP?

BlueDahlia69 · 21/04/2021 03:31

sounds very dodgy OP

Catsmother66 · 23/04/2021 20:06

@Justjackbutterfly, have you sorted this?
I am in your brother’s situation. I’m one of three, all named on Mum’s POA. However I am the one who sorts out her finances. It was difficult to pay her bills with just a third party agreement on her bank account and so with her permission, we both had to attend a bank appointment where I was added to her account. This gives me access to online banking and I can now pay her bills and sort out financial stuff with ease.
I also keep written records about every transaction so that if anyone asks, I can explain bank transfers to my account when I’ve previously purchased items on her behalf and then reimbursed myself from her account.
I am aware that when Mum dies the account stays open in my name and I will use it to finalise her affairs instead of opening an executor’s account. However, I am totally fair and honest and everything will be split between the three of us. My siblings have no present issues about me doing this and are probably grateful that they don’t have to!
If your brother has put himself on your Mum’s account for the above reasons, then I totally understand as it made things so much easier for me. It sounds like you may have a history that gives you the feeling of doubt towards your brother and maybe you should have a good chat with him and your Mum about it. (The bank did make sure that Mum consented to this without pressure).
Also, it may be beneficial to you to be added to your Mum’s accounts as well. It would then be a three person account.

Pythonesque · 26/04/2021 12:51

I've been able to have a card and online access to my mother's account with just the third party arrangement, I'm not an account holder. (I do now also have a POA but haven't been using it with the bank; though should sort out doing so as she wants her savings moved to new accounts!)

I agree though that the simplest solution to this situation may well be to get yourself added to the account in the same way your brother has been.

Justjackbutterfly · 24/05/2021 06:28

Just a quick update.......all of mums accounts are now back in her name only with me and my brother both on as power of attorney. A lot of cash missing/unaccounted for from mums accounts (just over £4000).
Mum just wants to put a line under it Sad and as she is old and frail Sad I dont want her worrying any more..she has also unknown to brother added me on to her will as executor along side brother and took brothers wife off ( all hell will break out if brother knew this) thank you for all your help x Mums is getting her sitting room redone and a comfy sofa, and is also paying for her garden to be done with a paved area she can sit out in (brother kept putting both things off as he thought they were going to cost too much) so mum is coming to stay with me for a couple of weeks whilst it gets done .
...ps brothers not speaking to me as I am a conniving little bitch!

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alwayswrighty · 24/05/2021 06:36

@Justjackbutterfly thank goodness you sorted it.

New2ctc · 24/05/2021 06:44

What a great update, you're your mum's hero.

Northernsoullover · 24/05/2021 06:44

Well there is only one person conniving and its not you. I'm glad you have sorted it and your mum has some things to look forward to.

Justjackbutterfly · 24/05/2021 07:19

Thank you xx just pleased its all sorted. Mums solicitor has been made aware that brother hasn't got any authority to change anything with them also..don't know if he could but just something less for mum to worryabout...it's been so worrying ☹

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