I work in Family Court/County Court - AMA

lovemenomore · 2021-01-20T11:33:03+00:00

As the title says - I work in a County Court on mainly Family cases and sometimes civil matters - AMA! I know there are a lot of court users currently being effected so AMA

Collaborate · 20/01/2021 14:41

What is the feeling about e-bundles? With some of my cases I have tried sending them in a week in advance and still they don't always reach the judge. I am sure this is a symptom of the huge backlog you are still having to deal with. Would you support judges emails being made available to lawyers for the purpose of lodging bundles?

Skeptadad · 20/01/2021 14:50

I am genuinely curious about this:

How exploited do you feel the legal aid system is? As someone who has legal aid granted against them, I assume through hearsay evidence (GP letter I imagine) my running assumption is that if you can claim legal aid against me you can claim it against anyone.

I read an article recently which suggested over 50% of cases in family court are now alleging domestic abuse (I assume to get legal aid).

I am trying to figure out if I am an outlier or it's endemic as I suspect.

My Solicitor suggests it's stacked against Dad's but maybe she says that as I pay her £250.00 an hour whilst my ex get's unsubstantiated legal aid.

This isn't a combative post I am generally shocked at how this system works. I wouldn't have believed it possible to be treated like this 2 years a go.

Original poster

lovemenomore · 20/01/2021 15:24

@Collaborate

What is the feeling about e-bundles? With some of my cases I have tried sending them in a week in advance and still they don't always reach the judge. I am sure this is a symptom of the huge backlog you are still having to deal with. Would you support judges emails being made available to lawyers for the purpose of lodging bundles?

Totally depends on the Judge.

The ones I work with are COP or High Court Judges and 95% of them prefer E Bundles & will take their laptop into court - however there are some that like the paper copy.

Either way the Ushers will have to print off the bundles.

The backlog is SHOCKING - example - I am in a nightingale court - was moved here in August - I have probably sat on 8 cases since then - our 'mother' court are responsible for listing and just WILL NOT give us any work! So day in day out we sit here with 3 empty court rooms and we are telling Familys/SW/LA that we have no dates till 2023. Disgusting!

Most Judges I work with don't mind their emails being given out to Lawyers & LA - obviously not to parents!

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Original poster

lovemenomore · 20/01/2021 15:26

Sorry @Collaborate - re the bundles getting to them - everything is controlled via the 'mother' court so it is down to staff getting it to them. We have access to their inbox so can fish stuff out.

As a Clerk, once I know the case I am on I will email the LA/Sols etc for the info myself save waiting for it to come through the system.

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Original poster

lovemenomore · 20/01/2021 15:35

@Skeptadad

I am genuinely curious about this:

How exploited do you feel the legal aid system is? As someone who has legal aid granted against them, I assume through hearsay evidence (GP letter I imagine) my running assumption is that if you can claim legal aid against me you can claim it against anyone.

I read an article recently which suggested over 50% of cases in family court are now alleging domestic abuse (I assume to get legal aid).

I am trying to figure out if I am an outlier or it's endemic as I suspect.

My Solicitor suggests it's stacked against Dad's but maybe she says that as I pay her £250.00 an hour whilst my ex get's unsubstantiated legal aid.

This isn't a combative post I am generally shocked at how this system works. I wouldn't have believed it possible to be treated like this 2 years a go.

Well, every case I have had has had legal aid. Bar the odd private law divorce case I get.

Sadly 99% of the care cases are with parents with additional needs/no job/on benefits so its needed. The odd ones represent themselves but that never goes well. And the other 1% will issue an injunction against each other (parents) so that they can claim it.

But yes there are a lot of people out there who know how to play the system! Technically only Criminal and DV cases should get it.

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MrsDeadlock · 20/01/2021 15:38

What is your view on 50/50 shared custody?

Santaiscovidfree · 20/01/2021 15:39

Do you sit in the court room? Do you see people obviously lying and feel wtf? My exh was a good actor and did indeed have everyone fooled for 4 years. Until that last hearing when he tried to attack me from the stand. The the final day how Cafcass admitted their entire case was based on facts from exh. Often wonder if the judge and all his court members felt bloody stupid....

Original poster

lovemenomore · 20/01/2021 15:44

@MrsDeadlock

What is your view on 50/50 shared custody?

I don't think its fair on the child. I imagine that much moving about between homes would be tiring.

It isn't often granted.

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Original poster

lovemenomore · 20/01/2021 15:49

@Santaiscovidfree

Do you sit in the court room? Do you see people obviously lying and feel wtf? My exh was a good actor and did indeed have everyone fooled for 4 years. Until that last hearing when he tried to attack me from the stand. The the final day how Cafcass admitted their entire case was based on facts from exh. Often wonder if the judge and all his court members felt bloody stupid....

Yes I am the person who sits in front of the Judge and facing the courtroom.

You see all sorts. From heart-breaking to downright laughable behaviour. And yes once we have left the courtroom Judge and I will discuss the case and what we think - they ALWAYS ask what they think they should do...this I found most surprising when I first started but it's normal now.

At first I was like WTF?! a lot and would find it hard not to look at the person on the stand and be like you did what to that child?! But sadly you get used to it and it goes over your head.

Also people appearing in court often make eye contact with you which is awkward!

Don't talk to me about Cafcass!!

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PositiviTina · 20/01/2021 16:29

Hi @lovemenomore, thanks for answering questions!

If it is found as fact that a parent has been emotionally abusive towards their child in civil court, what sort of contact arrangements do you generally see?

HollowayL31 · 20/01/2021 16:42

@lovemenomore Hello OP. This question is just one that I'm thinking ahead off.
My partner is Australian of whom I share a child with, I have two children from a previous partner who see there dad 50/50. We would love to move there with all children. Their father has said outright no. I did propose they would be able to come back on holidays for periods of time when school has there break. Realistically if this was to go to court what would be the chances that this would potentially be granted in my favour taking the children with a proposed plan? This obviously right now isn't going to happen due to the current situation but I would like to think and plan ahead. We obviously would wait until they are of legal age to make a decision for themselves if the above wasn't granted and have no problem in doing so but would be lovely for them to have this opportunity and experience. Sorry for this being long!

Pebbledashery · 20/01/2021 19:21

How often do you see no contact or indirect contact orders given when there's been severe domestic abuse?

bounce89 · 20/01/2021 22:59

If a judge has ordered that a child cannot see their dads partner due to emotional abuse and domestic violence that the child has witnessed, would this change after they have attended court ordered parenting classes?
I know they would have to go back to court to change the order but I just wondered how likely it would be that they would agree to this?

Thank you for doing this.

Original poster

lovemenomore · 21/01/2021 11:11

@PositiviTina

Hi sorry haven't been able to get on till now.

It would depend on the amount of abuse, age of child and wishes and feelings I guess?

I've seen judges invite the child into court or via teams etc to speak to them if they are old enough.

One recently was quite obvious that they didn't want nor need contact from what they had been subjected too.

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Londt · 21/01/2021 11:22

Are judges ever rude/criticising of the lawyers afterwards?

NCforsafety · 21/01/2021 13:51

I've had three years of awfulness in family court - so bad that an application to withdraw from the case over Christmas was the only way forward. I've probably biased now because it was so bad but here are my questions:

How can Courts be allowed to discriminate against LIP's? (eg fact finding hearing - no cross examination because no legal rep - the other side was represented so allowed cross examination)
Why is it that if a woman is found guilty of physically abusing her husband nothing is done but if the husband is found guilty (of one count against the ex while she was found to be have been repeatedly abusive) the court tries to force course attendance?
Why when all experts and all tests show no risk by allowing unsupervised contact and the court order expects this to happen - why is the ex wife just allowed to say no I don't agree and has no sanction for non-compliance?
Why do courts bother attaching penal codes when they refuse to then utilise them?
Why do Judges think it's fair to be in contact with one party who is represented but to refuse correspondence from an LIP?
Why do Judges allow respondents to pretend they are Petitioners and allow applications they make under this falsehood?
How is it fair in a costs argument for a Judge to say she isn't interested in hearing a counter argument to a costs application? The party who applied for costs was allowed 7 a4 sheets of paper for their argument but the Judge refused any counter argument form the LIP.
Why does the family court persist in unbridled sexism (positive to women) and is never penalised for their massive sexism towards men?
Lastly how the hell does an inept and awful service like CAFCASS still exist?

Thanks :)

Pebbledashery · 21/01/2021 14:13

@NCforsafety sounds like you have had a bad experience.. But i completely disagree that family court is sexist towards men and favour mothers.. Plenty of mothers on here who have lost residence of their children for individual reasons.

NCforsafety · 21/01/2021 14:19

@Pebbledashery - yes I agree. But there are a lot of men (in my opinion more) who have lost their children due to the sexism of the courts and their bias towards mothers rather than fathers.

Women who are found guilty of physical abuse should be treated just as harshly as men found guilty of it and they just are not. The courts response when questioned regarding this - well there aren't really courses in the UK for women who abuse so we can't do anything.

Bollocks in my humble opinion.

Original poster

lovemenomore · 21/01/2021 15:28

@HollowayL31
Hi

I think you'd have to have a very good case for taking them if they were below the age of being able to share their wishes and feelings.

I've never known/worked on a case where a judge orders for them to go unless for safety? sorry, prob not much help!

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Original poster

lovemenomore · 21/01/2021 15:29

@Pebbledashery

A LOT!

Indirect and letterbox is very common. I'm normally the LA & CAFCASS are involved and if they recommend this it's normally 99% granted.

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HollowayL31 · 21/01/2021 15:30

@lovemenomore Thank you so much for your reply, no there are no safety issues and we do both have full responsibility 7 days each with the girls. I guess it would be a hard case as much as they would love to go they do both want to see their father. I'll wait till they are 16.
Have a good day!

Original poster

lovemenomore · 21/01/2021 15:31

@bounce89
Hiya,

It would depend on how they responded to the classes, conduct, and other factors, it would then need a further assessment by social workers/cafcass etc before being granted. It wouldn't be an automatic thing.

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Pebbledashery · 21/01/2021 15:47

@lovemenomore thank you for responding. Can I ask one more question?, how seriously would the court take a mother and child fleeing severe domestic abuse with the intervention of children's services/child protection who relocated them to safety and the perpetrator doesn't know where mother and child live? The perpetrator is also a known stalker.. He's currently having supervised in a contact centre but is maintaining he didn't perpetrate domestic abuse towards us. The LA have documented child abuse also. Cafcass have said if he continues this view point after findings are made against him then there will be no safe way of progressing contact. Is it possible supervised can then go to indirect to protect child as well as mother? Its a really messy situation.

Original poster

lovemenomore · 21/01/2021 18:18

@Pebbledashery

Yes defo & sounds like it would need too.

Judges can spot abusers miles off, they all have the same repertoire in court!

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Original poster

lovemenomore · 21/01/2021 18:21

@Londt

Well, yes, they have ones they like and ones they don't feel are doing a good job so they do air their opinion. When we leave the courtroom back to chambers there is normally a lot of eye rolling and WTF type moments!

Same as the office staff you hear and read terrible terrible stuff so you have to make things light hearted somehow.

If that makes sense?

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