Dp’s sons and will

[Toffeeapplepie]

Hi

I hope you can help me. I have been with dp for 5 years but we’re not married. He has been married before and has 2 adult sons a few years younger than me. Me and dp bought our dream house last year and I would like to get married but I know it was stressful for dp during the divorce and he said he doesn’t want to marry again. We bought our house as tenants in common to protect the money we contributed to the deposit if we ever split up. I have asked dp if we can get some wills to leave our share of the house to each other if anything happens but he doesn’t like to talk about it. He doesn’t like discussing wills or insurance. He thinks the house will be left to the survivor even though I’ve explained it won’t. He’s older than me but I’d like to say I’m not a gold digger, we work full time and well paid. We don’t have any plans for children. His sons have started to making comments like if anything happened to dp they would be the ones in control and making all the decisions and I don’t think we have anything in place to stop this? I’m starting to feel really anxious and struggling to stop thinking about it. Me and dp are putting a lot of money in the house but I don’t know if I want to carry on doing this as I think they will make me sell the house so they get their share if anything happened to dp. Is it wrong to feel like this? I want to get married and then change the arrangement to joint tenants. Does anyone think this would be a bad idea?

You need legal advice, or at least some way of getting through to your DP that by burying his head on the sand he's going to leave quite a mess behind him.

Can you get him to at least go with you to see a solicitor who can explain things to him?

Ideally you should get married to be protected, or if your dp is worried about neglecting his sons, he could leave his share of the house to them, but for you to have a life interest in it. That would mean you could stay there as long as you wish, half-title passing to the sons on your death.

I'd insist on it because without that, yes, you could be forced to sell as soon as probate is granted, meaning you'll be forced to deal with a house sale while grieving, which is too much to expect of you.

He can give you a lifetime interest in the house so that his sons inherit his Asgard only when you die.

It is very unfair that he is refusing to discuss this.

Incidentally, my df died intestate, and it cost a lot in solicitor's fees to sort it out. Just sorting out access to pensions and shares and accounts took almost a year.

Does your partner want to give money to a lawyer unnecessarily?

He obviously wants to leave his share to his children, and that’s fair enough.
He might already have a will outlining that.
If he dies now you would have to sell the house unless he stipulates in his will that you can live there as long as you want or until you cohabitate/marry.
Do you have enough money in the house/savings to buy a house for yourself, and run it ?
Do you work and have a private pension ?

Your partner needs to get his head out of the sand!
Get legal advice, I guess it'll be two things, either it's split at time of death between the two sides, which IS his prerogative, because think of it this way, you inherit the house, go off and marry someone else and your partners children never inherit from hiim which would be terrible injustice

Or

You get the house until you die then they inherit their part after then and your part you give to whomever you chose

There could be all sorts of caveats so if you sell the house it may split at that point and his children inherit, or vice versa if you die first

Whatever you do, you need to do something, plus keep good records of what your input is so you're not ripped off by his children if he dies first

He doesn’t want to leave his share to his children, I did say that he thinks the house will be left to the survivor.

Replying to FippertyGibbett

Are you sure that he doesn't want to leave the house to his DC, especially as you are the same age as them so they would be unlikely to inherit anything in their lifetime if he gives you a lifetime interest in the property? Maybe he doesn't want to discuss it or write a will because he doesn't want to tell you that is how he feels?

He can leave his share to his children to protect it in case you should remarry and fail to rewrite a will meaning your new spouse could inherit the entire property in you were joint tennants. Instead leave it as joint tenjants but ask him to sign a will giving you a life interest meaning his children cannot sell the house until you either choose to sell it yourself or die. Both your own share of value and theirs will then become free to each party. This is the safest way.
Some solicitors will do this very inexpensively.

I don’t mind him leaving his share to the children but I don’t want to move out after contributing so much. This was my forever home so I think we should be doing what we can to protect each other. At the moment I won’t get a say If something did happen. I’m anxious because his sons could be the ones making the decisions about my home. It doesn’t feel right. I don’t have anyone who would be forcing a sale if something happened to me so I feel like I would be the one left vulnerable.

You can have a civil ceremony, that's legal for a Will, just living together for however many years means nothing in Wills.

I totally agree with you @Toffeeapplepie and leaving the house to his DC and giving you a lifetime interest would protect you but I was wondering whether his reluctance to deal with the issue is because he doesn't want that but doesn't know how to tell you. As I said, if the DC are the same age as you, realistically they wil never get their share of the house if you have a lifetime interest in it.

so I feel like I would be the one left vulnerable.

That feeling is entirely accurate.

A Will is important, but there is always the remaining vulnerability that it can be changed at any point. People can be odd about making their Will - probably a vestige of superstition? - but I think you need to point out again (quite forcefully) that he really does need one. If he keeps fobbing you off, then you have little option but to accept that he wants his DC to inherit. So you need to plan for that scenario.

It is good that you are keeping your financial independence in other ways.

@orangenasturtium Yes you’re right, that could be it. I think I need to sit down and have a serious conversation with him. I don’t see myself leaving here.

Thank you for all your help everyone.

@Toffeeapplepie

He doesn’t want to leave his share to his children, I did say that he thinks the house will be left to the survivor.

But what he tells you and what he really wants might be two different things. You need a real discussion, and you need to make a will for your share even if he won’t. Do you have siblings, nieces or nephews that you want your half to go to after you both have died or are you happy for it to go to his children ?

if you are not married and he dies without a will then his share of the house will pass under the intestacy laws. Probably to his children., But it certainly will not pass to you.

You need a solicitor to explain it to him. I do not why are so many people willing ti bury their heads in the sand about things like this!!!!!! Death is a fact. People seem queasy about discussing death, yet it is the only thing we all have in common.

Oh and OP- make sure you have a will also so you are covered. protect yourself financially. Things can go tits up even with the best intentions. protect yourself first. Good on you for the tenants in common bit. That was a good move. xx

If he won't grow up and have the conversation then really you need to stop investing in the house, unless you could buy his sons out of it in the event of his death.

If it turns out that he wants to leave the house to his DC @Toffeeapplepie, perhaps you could buy a life insurance policy that would cover the cost of buying his DC out of his share, with his agreement? Lifelong policies can be expensive though.

His sons have started to making comments like if anything happened to dp they would be the ones in control and making all the decisions and I don’t think we have anything in place to stop this?

I just saw that you also asked about next of kin if something happened to your DP. Your DP can choose whoever he wants to be his next of kin or to whom to give power of attorney.

I've been looking up on Wills and Probate and gather in UK Inheritance Tax has to be paid before Probate is granted and it must be done within 6 months of death date or HMRC charges interest.

OP if DP wants to leave his share of house to you he would have made the ownership as Joint Tenants with you - then you would get the property without any IHT but with Tenants in Common he can leave it to whomever he choses and IHT may be due if over the threshold (I think).

IHT is payable after £325 k for a single, unmarried person.

If they are not married then the OP's partner will have £325 k nil-rate band of IHT before it is payable. If the Op and her partner are married then the IHT payable is transferred to her, to bolt on to her IHT allowance when she dies, so there will be a threahoild of £650 k of a nil-rate tax band before tax is payable.

The phrase 'nil-rate tax band' is pertinent. Every single person in the UKwhen they die is liable to pay IHT. It is just that it is at 0% until a certain level.

You can be bloody sure that this was put into the legislation on purpose so that the powers that be can raise IHT liability pretty much at will.

Moral of the story? Never think you are not wealthy enough to pay IHT. There will be a way if the government wishes it.

I'd be telling him that you'll be making a Will leaving your share to charity and leaving him no life interest so he'll be forced to sell.