Mother not present at handover

[Twinny1111]

Does anyone know where we stand with this?

We have been having issues with my Partners daughter’s mother for a while with breaching the CAO and being generally controlling, everything on her terms etc.

My partners handover stopped at 7.30 this morning - either at the mothers in school holidays or dropped off at school in the morning.

My partner messaged the weekend and reminded her that she does not return back until Tuesday, this was on the latest newsletter the school sent over two weeks ago.

She sent a message saying that she will be going to work and will not be at home. (She had forgotten school doesn’t start up again until Tuesday). Partner reminded of her responsibility as per court order and on her time it is not his responsibility to make childcare arrangements, and that he will be there first thing in the morning for handover. She refused and said that she will be going to work and he will have to sort something out.

Mother was not present at handover. His has impacted my partners work, he is self employed.

Is this another breach of the court order on her terms? There is a history of her being very unreasonable throughout the course of the past two years regarding stuff like this and we have had enough of running around after her.

You're asking the wrong question. Whether or not it was a breach of the court order is immaterial, she's not going to be banged up or lose residence over one handover.

The question your partner should be asking is, how can we avoid this happening again? How must my daughter be feeling when she sees me and her Mum unable to cooperate on even the most basic things? What are we teaching her about relationships?

I know you're going to defend the situation by saying the conflict is all on the part of the mother, but the tone of your OP and focus on the court order suggests the conflict is being driven by both sides.

I didn’t imply whether she is going to be ‘banged up’ or whatever that’s not what we want for the child of course.

Of course my tone is bad, both me my partner AND the child is being constantly let down and having time messed about by the other parent. I was asking If this was another breach.

Exactly what golden zigzag said.

Does your partner do a fair share of the inset days and holidays? Or does it always fall to Mum?

It’s not about you and your partner being messed around, it’s about the child, as GoldenZigZag says. Despite being told Mum wouldn’t be there, your partner chose to put his daughter through the experience of taking her and trying to drop her to an empty house, presumably to make some sort of point. Yes, she should have made an arrangement for childcare, but she hadn’t. Your partner had the weekend to make alternative arrangements for his daughter as well, but chose not to. They’re as bad as each other.

The child is the innocent party in all this. Try focussing on what’s best for her.

^^ what they said. Both parents need to grow up and start putting the child first.

Her partner was there but refused to take her.

We have made alternate childcare arrangements and she’s happy.

This is a frequent occurrence where she will shy from her responsibilities to parent if it does not suit her - and we have got to the point now where it needs to change - it’s not just the child that is being affected now. It’s everyone who is involved.

@autumnboys

Yes he had her for the school holidays last week, and takes half of the holiday time off work.

Obviously both parents could have done something differently in this scenario - but the only control your partner has in this scenario is around his own behaviour.

So instead of "Partner reminded of her responsibility as per court order and on her time it is not his responsibility to make childcare arrangements, and that he will be there first thing in the morning for handover" he could have said to Mum.. You know what, easy mistake to make, how can we sort this for little X? Could you maybe check with your Mam/ aunt/ childminder to see if one of them might be able to have and I'll check with partner/ neighbour/ grandparents my end?

Trying out a collaborative approach might not yeild results immediately, but it sets the tone going forward and shows willing.

Keep a record of all breaches including any records of provisions being made eg. Receipt for clubs on her time that you’ve paid for.

When you have a few of these go back to court and have the order amended with clauses that allow you to act when mother is in breach of the order.

It would be nice if we lived in a world where parents could be adult enough to communicate properly, but we don’t. If this were a mother and not a step-parent or father there would be more support.

Enforce the order. If she repeatedly fails she will eventually lose time with the child or the resident parent could swap but this is usually rare and where one parent constantly fails to act in the best interest of the child.

@Twinny1111 does that include inset days??

You won’t fix this through legal means. It can only be fixed through improving communication or one parent being the bigger person and being more flexible than the other.

Why did your son take the child to her mother when she said she couldn’t help?! Yes that was unreasonable but he used the child as a pawn. He should have sorted something else out and then had a proper conversation later on when things were calmer.

Funny enough my ex does the opposite, Fights me over who gets to keep her on an inset day 😂 he’d love your issue!

I wouldn’t have put my child through the experience of turning up at mums only to find she wasn’t there. That was irresponsible and cruel of your partner. He is an adult, whether it’s fair or not on him he has to limit the impact of the mother’s actions on his daughter. That’s what parenting is. He’s not in control of what his ex does but he is in control of what he does.

Your partner should have just made arrangements for the child. She is the most important thing.

it’s not just the child that is being affected now.

This is a telling comment.

Also who is responsible when the child ‘should’ be at school... is a grey area... if for example your Dp had the child at the weekend, when does mum then become responsible from 9am school time or 3pm after school.... unless it’s specifically noted in a court order I’d say the only fair way to do it, is they are BOTH responsible. Why should mum always take the financial hit!

How old is the child?

Did you also say that her mother’s partner was at home this morning but refused to let her in? To her own home? Why on earth did your DP put her through that experience when he already knew her mother wouldn’t be home?

It’s time to start thinking about what those little eyes are seeing & little ears hearing. So now she’s going to spend the day thinking mummy didn’t want her today & daddy’s really put out by being lumbered with her? Can you not see how damaging that is?

We have had the order enforced and waiting on court In a few months for that over several breaches where she took the child away from home at handover time and refused to let her see him on his night/ his week etc. Other minor breaches too where she has decided to go shopping Or out for a meal When he is supposed to be there for handover and had him waiting around saying she’s not rushing around and delayed handover time for hours before now. This example seems to be the opposite problem
lol but you get the general gist. If it doesn’t fit with what she’s doing or her wishes then she simply wont. It’s not about her child’s needs it’s about her needs.

He’s amicable with her and this is evident through all messages and communication but she is not with him, very nasty and bossy - she won’t ask she will tell.

She pretty much said yesterday ‘she’s in your care so not my problem.’ The court order is very clear, doesn’t mention ‘inset days’ it’s either drop off at school or drop off first thing Monday morning of child is not at school.

Of course he went to the handover, he’s following the court order, and he always will do.

I wouldn’t have put my child through the experience of turning up at mums only to find she wasn’t there.

This. You don't turn up to have an argument first thing in the morning with child in tow.

Whether it is a breach depends on whether the order has dates on. If it just says 'school holidays' then it is your partner who is in breach.

Either way I can't imagine a court would give a shit. As everyone has said- the focus should be on his daughter's needs and making amicable arrangements. If that means he ends up having his daughter for longer then great for him.

A lot of dad's seem to get mainly weekend time with their children, with no working week responsibilities. It seems completely wrong that they then have no financial/logistical childcare obligations.

Your partner obviously foresaw this problem and didn't put anything in place. Has your partner really tried to be flexible and reasonable? It really shouldn't be necessary to go to court at all. Has he tried treating the mother with respect and understanding for her responsibilities?

Technically, this could be a breach.

However, much would depend on the wording of the court order regarding holidays.

If the order says that school holidays are split 5050then yabu to not expect to have to organise childcare for some Of these.

Equally, it is unreasonable to assume that all childcare responsibilities should fall to her either, despite how awkward you believe that she is.

Equally, as a self employed person, it would be easier for him to arrange to cover the day given he had notice. Compared to if limited by an employer.

Sorry about the random apostrophe! My phone has terrible grammar.

I highly doubt the court would care, having been multiple times they ALWAYS say being reasonable and flexible even with a court order, is expected. My ex actually complained in court I kept him waiting at the door sometimes 3/4 minutes ..... as you can imagine the court completely dismissed this. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect your DP to have arranged childcare for today.

@Bleughbleughbleugh12

I highly doubt the court would care, having been multiple times they ALWAYS say being reasonable and flexible even with a court order, is expected. My ex actually complained in court I kept him waiting at the door sometimes 3/4 minutes ..... as you can imagine the court completely dismissed this. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect your DP to have arranged childcare for today.

Agree. Caos shouldn't mean no flexibility and reasonableness.

In this scenario, it sounds as though your partner has almost goaded her by only commenting on the training day at a time when he knew if she had forgotten she couldn't do anything about it.

Practically, moving forward a shared online calendar that shows each parents time in different colours and includes school dates, inset days, holidays etc is the logical way forward.