Cafcass manipulating dc and allowing abusive dad to do the same

[daddysgirlconfused]

ExH is abusive and has moved on to being emotionally abusive to the dc and then got physically abusive last year. The police said they didn't want to put dc through court, social services said it needed to go back to court. Both told me to safeguard the dc.

At court cafcass were told to do a section 7. Now they are doing another report and dc have a guardian. Cafcass are twisting dc's wishes and feelings and manipulating them into contact with dad who they view as not a risk. They have intimated that the abuse is made up. We are currently attempting phone calls but every call has been dad telling the dc how much fun they are missing out on by not having contact, how he really wants to see them, take them on holiday, but them lots of things and has bought them lots of things, how he'll tell cafcass that they want to see him and how it's up to them what happens next and that court don't need to be involved. Says he who applied to court to enforce the contact order.

Cafcass say dc are confused and have no clue it seems about how abuse affects children and makes them feel conflicted about the abusive parent.

What can I do? I strongly believe the dc are in danger but no one is listening to my concerns and haven't for years. Cafcass are saying to get my solicitor to question them at one of the next hearings.

Can you somehow record the phone calls?

It'll be really helpful if you can show dad manipulating them and making promises and the kids not responding positively and wanting that.

How old are the children?

Can you ask them all to type a statement each explaining how they feel and send that. Explain to caffcass this is their feelings when not having adults around and them feeling under pressure to answer a certain way.

They are 13 and 11. I'm not sure I should be recording anything? They have written their feelings down and cafcass have ignored and asked leading questions but nothing about the abuse they have suffered. So not "do you want to see your dad?" But "what would you want contact to be like?"

You can record anything. You cannot play a recording to someone else if a 3rd party is involved but the kids can record their own conversations with their dad.
But at 13 and 11 if they say they don't want to go because if x h and z usually at that age courts take their opinion into consideration.

But if they ask "what would contact with dad be like" why don't they reply "we don't want contacnt because ......."

Ex would be very very careful if he knew he was being recorded. I'm amazed that cafcass didn't brief hiM on the calls do as not to sway them either way.

No advice but I feel for you . Similar situation with Cafcass here...they seem to favour contact over common sense.

Do you still have contact with their father directly or is it just through the children? Can you call him out on it so he either confirms or denies?

I'm sorry but why don't you just get your solicitor to question them as suggested? Is that worse than your ex abusing them?

What we want to happen and what needs to happen are not always the same. When you are dealing with an abuser you need to do everything you can and not leave anything to chance/other people.

The courts are full of people alleging abuse and sadly the people in the system are jaded and want evidence. Not just your word or written statements. Manipulative abusive men are very good at this so you can't afford to leave any gaps they can exploit

@itsgettingweird

Can you somehow record the phone calls?

It'll be really helpful if you can show dad manipulating them and making promises and the kids not responding positively and wanting that.

How old are the children?

Can you ask them all to type a statement each explaining how they feel and send that. Explain to caffcass this is their feelings when not having adults around and them feeling under pressure to answer a certain way.

Terrible advice. If you record the conversations you’ll get absolutely slated by the judge and rightly so.

We are at the start of the full assessment so I'm not familiar with what happens. Cafcass said there will be numerous court hearings and that the process will take considerable time. They were snitty with me compared to when they were doing the section 7. No clue about abuse and how it affects victims. If my solicitor needs to question cafcass on their recommendations then that's fine by me. I'm just stunned by how crap they are.

Even though charges were not pressed do you have anything from the police or use the social worker that could be used? Wishing you all the best.

I could maybe get something but I have always documented everything via email to my solicitor anyway including log numbers, names of police officers and whoever I have spoken to at social services.

When you next speak to CAFCASS give these to them too so ut is formally recorded in their notes and it will show incompetence if not acted on. It is such a lottery on whether you get a good one or not.

Cafcass are not on your side so you need to get someone who understands this process and how to handle cafcass. They will not save you from this man - they will try to facilitate him seeing the dc.

They should be on the side of the children. Dd doesn't trust them at all. Psych assessments have been mentioned threatened for all of us but maybe just one parent. The tone is really unpleasant now.

The point of the guardian is to represent the children impartially. The courts are full of parents accusing each other of all manor of abuse etc so the courts start from a position of what's best for the children, not the parents. I presume social services and the police haven't taken action against him so it just your word that there was abuse.

The process will ask them what they want from a relationship, it may be none, it may be phone contact etc. The courts also have to bear in mind that resident parents can try and turn kids against the absent parent. They don't know you or the situation, and they will have seen all kinds of situations, all they want is the best outcome for the kids try not to take it personally. I've been a court appointed guardian, you take nothing as black and white.

I really understand how tough it is, but in most circumstances some contact is the best option for the children (contact centre, at a relatives house etc) so they will actively explore this.

They are definitely not impartial here. It's very sad when they don't believe a child who says they were abused. I feel powerless to protect my children.

The problem is that you could have told your children that they were abused.

They need to ignore your claims in order to assess whether 1. kids want contact when you're not providing input. 2. Kids don't want contact even when mum isn't involved in the conversation. and if 2. is true they need to work out whether there's some parental alienation involved or not.

What can I do to help dc? Without being seen to be influencing them? My only concern is protecting them.

You need to let Cafcass talk to them without them feeling they should be answering in the way you want.

And in answer to an open ended question like what do you want contact to be like, they could well make answers that flag up possible abuse eg. For Dad to listen or for Dad not to shout at us. Let them do their job, they are trained social workers.

Quietly behind the scenes talk through with the kids all possible outcomes. Do it carefully. Ask questions that allow them to provide answers. So "What are you hoping for from this phone call/contact with dad" "How do you think dad will react" " do you think that is safe" "is that realistic". Do not give your own opinion " this isn't what I think you are the one going to see him". If you do give an opinion "This is my perspective and it may be different from yours". By doing this you help the kids to advocate for themselves in their own voice

Explain that "What they say now is very important and will shape their future relationship with their dad"

Explain Cafcasses role. But explain it fully. So "Cafcass are there to promote contact with both parents through the courts they will not be with you when you go to your Dads after". Talk about perspectives and facts, help your kids understand that Cafcass officials might have there own perspectives based on their own needs that may be different from the kids own because they are they to promote contact with Dad. If cafcass start promoting their Dad unrealistically in a way that is contrary to their past experience. "Does that match with your experience of your Dad? Is that a realistic of how your Dad can react".

Remind Cafcass gently that they will not be there to pick up the pieces if they are wrong. Also that their positive interpretation of Dad's behaviour if it turns out to be incorrect will damage the children's faith in authorities who are meant to protect them preventing them from feeling safe asking for help.

Carcass aren't there to promote contact with both parents. They are there to ensure that the children's right to see other parents is adhered to, where this is in their best interests, if your children talk to them saying my mum says you're on Dads side, they will see you as negatively influencing them. Your children are of an age where their opinions are more taken into account.

They are there to ensure that the children's right to see other parents is adhered to,

This is another way of saying they are there to promote access with both parents. It's important your kids understand this especially if they are making promise about Dads behaviour that undermines your child previous experience of access.

"if your children talk to them saying my mum says you're on Dads side,"

That's why you absolutely do not give an opinion yourself. Your opinion as a Mum is in any rate irrelevant. Its your kids that will be in contact on there own with him. You do give them to space to validate their own experiences when it may be hard for them to do so. Kids want their dad's even when dad has hurt them. Understanding that they can want and love their Dad but not be safe in their care is a really important conclusion you have to give them the spave to realise.

But it is important for your kids to understand that if Cafcass are there telling your kids, Dad's such a nice man, Dad misses you, and was that really as bad as you think, that cafcass won't be there to ensure it doesn't go belly up.

Cafxass wont say your Dad's a nice man or anything of the sort. They're impartial.

In our final hearing my barrister pulled apart my dc's Cafcass guardian.
Exh lost..
You need a shl and let it go to court.
Do not be bullied by Cafcass.