Would a Judge order me to send photos of my house to my ExH?

[NameChangerinDespair]

My ExH and I are in Court very soon for a Contested Final Hearing.

In his Statement to the Court, should he be granted permanent residency, he has asked that I submit photos to him to prove the home conditions. There have been concerns and SW involvement in my house but even they talk of "great improvement".

Would a Judge grant this request of his?

I doubt it but they would take SW s concerns very seriously.

Evidentially they’d be useless anyway. Does he think that you wouldn’t clean and tidy before photos are taken?

I guess he's abusive?

Bluntly, is the state of your house one that would likely cause concern to an outside observer?

SWs have been involved but they have said my house is now suitable. They have made no recommendations for any sort of supervision like that.

How would he know if they are actually your house or not ? Would you need to be in every frame ?

Just collect a few pics from Rightmove, and submit those if required. Although I would be extremely surprised if any judge saw their way to requiring this. However it's a good knobhead heads up, and you can't have too many of them.

(On the off chance you are a Nazi memorabilia collector, best not leave any signed pics of the Fuhrer in shot.)

@NameChangerinDespair

SWs have been involved but they have said my house is now suitable. They have made no recommendations for any sort of supervision like that.

What was unsuitable about your house that the sw asked to to change?

Did he ever live at your house? If not then he will have no idea of the pictures are of your house or not, but I can’t see it would ever be deemed appropriate for pictures to be provided anyway.

It’s not up to him to Police how the children live when they’re with you. However, if there have been concerns about your home to the point where SS have intervened then I can understand why, as a father, he may be worried. Photos is a ridiculous way to go about reassurance though!

He did, it is the Former Marital.Home.

My house was awful: I am a hoarder and, under a series of pressures (becoming a Single Parent to Four from 2 1/2 to 9, financial abuse from my ExH, going back to work FT, my ExH moving four hours away and not engaging very much) it got out of control. That also made it hard to do necessary repairs (as did the lack of money).

SWs have been involved for a bit and there has been tremendous improvement. However, he retained the Children after contact and has made a bid for Residency. The request for photos was in his submission to the Court.

Keep positive, take some photos of the clearest rooms/cleanest areas and breathe. Key is keeping the house under control, as you will be fine if you can do that.

Possibly op because he’s going for residency saying you’re not fit to parent based on how you were living. Poor enough conditions can and do constitute neglect.

However if ss are now satisfied the conditions the kids live in have been brought to a suitable standard then I don’t understand yout concern. Show the pics to the court. Also ss can testify and likely will be asked to.

I’d also suggest he knows what the ops house looks like. Either from being in it or seeing photos. Those suggesting lying are doing the op no favours. If the house is now suitable then there is no issue showing it as such to the court.

Did he ever live at your house? If not then he will have no idea of the pictures are of your house or not, but I can’t see it would ever be deemed appropriate for pictures to be provided anyway.It’s not up to him to Police how the children live when they’re with yo

This is a mind boggling thing to write. You don’t need to have lived some where to have visited it or seen in it, or for your kids to have shown you pics, and secondly yes, if the conditions were bad enough that social services had to be called in, then of course the other parent gets to have a say and challenge it if they think there is a safe guarding issue.

However the op has said the issue is resolved, so there is no issue in providing the images to prove it.

Do you have a solicitor? What do they say?

I think the SW report likely to carry a tonne more weight than some pictures, but surely you can see why he is concerned?

I haven't had a chance to speak to my Solicitor or my Barrister, as the report arrives close of play Friday.

Prior to receiving it, I had already asked my Barrister if I needed to provide photos and she said, as the SWs hadn't visited since they signed-it off for overnights, they were obviously not worried about it.

I see why he is acting concerned, as he had been criticised for not being involved sooner but, tbh, I find it very hard, as he ahs gone to completely uninterested to being a hero by swooping in, with nothing practical in-between.

If the SWs are happy, so should he be.

This is a mind boggling thing to write

Not really. My ex has never seen the inside of my home and would never know whether pictures were of my home or not.

If you'd bothered to read my second paragraph you will see I did say that the other parent may have legitimate reason to be worried. They are entitled to challenge it, but they're not, imo, entitled to pictures of the inside of someone else's home.

If the SWs are happy, so should he be.

Social workers can and do get things wrong a lot of times. Plus the standard for allowing a child to stay in the home is pretty low, IMO.

Is he currently the RP?

I’m not trying to bash you while you’re down but are you sure you can cope with having them? You weren’t before and my skin crawls at the idea of kids as young as 2.5 Having to live like that.

Well my ex submitted pictures to court to prove he finally had Suitable sleeping arrangements for them.
3yr olds shouldn't be sleeping in a put up cot and 5yr old on the floor, especially as he was living at his parents 4 bed house.
It was just part of the not providing for them properly.

And as a parent I very much had a right to know.

Op you had some issues, and you have worked on them successfully- which is wonderful because hoarding is very hard to over come.

But if I was you, I would willing submit a few pictures, if he complains he would look unreasonable. And it shows that you are willing to improve the situation between you both, even if you bloody hate him.

Acting smart in court will help you a lot. It's not about if they can make you, more about what will work in your favour.

I do get it maybe very uncomfortable for you. I would feel the same if my exdp of my youngest asked as he mental torture me in our home but judges see things very black and white.

I have no problems providing photographic evidence to the Courts of the improvements I have made; if he is awarded permanent Residency, I am objecting to providing my ExH with photos before every visit of my Children.

Providing photos prior to every visit is unreasonable imo and I doubt a judge would grant that; as it has the potential to be used as a form of abuse (denying contact to punish for normal mess etc). It’s also ridiculous as you could just take a bunch of photos now when the house is tidy and drip feed them through and he could be none the wiser.

Well done for getting help and working with social services, it can’t have been easy but it shows you’re a good mum

Thanks @Dyrne.

Involvement with SS has been hideous and so disheartening, this is a side issue to this query, but they have not been supportive and, for a variety of reasons, notwithstanding the improvements and his previous lack of involvement, they have prompted my ExH to retain the Children and start this case to change their Residency.

I know it can be awful sometimes but You’re absolutely doing all the right things @NameChangerinDespair - just keep engaging and doing all that is asked of you (by SS that is, not necessarily your ex!) - that will put you in a strong position as you’ll be able to prove you’ve improved and are committed to providing a safe and secure space for your children.

If you have the strength, make sure you keep records of any unreasonable or unethical behaviour by SS so you can make a formal complaint afterwards.

Involvement with SS has been hideous and so disheartening, this is a side issue to this query, but they have not been supportive and, for a variety of reasons, notwithstanding the improvements and his previous lack of involvement, they have prompted my ExH to retain the Children and start this case to change their Residency.

Are you saying that social services have encouraged/advised your ex to get primary custody?

Ah ok, that’s not clear in your op. In your op you make it read like it’s for the final hearing.

I also don’t think photos before every visit is reasonable, but possibly periodically.

Yes, @Aquamarine1029 ... for reasons I still don't understand, my ExH's Second ExW called me to let me know that is what he told her, and my ExH alludes to it in his statement to Court. SS had to backtrack after I complained when they said he had their "support" before they had even been asked to do a Section 7, and clarify what, apparently, they had actually meant. They had not started Pre-Proceedings against me, nor had they even discussed taking that action within their management structure, as they would have to have done, nor, at an ICPC said the Children needed to be taken out of my care. In fact, they reassured me they had no intention of removing the Children, and said the same to one of my Children, detailed in a report.

Sorry, @Bluntness100: I am referencing a report my ExH has submitted as part of the Final Hearing but he wants photos before visits after this.