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Possible dodgy will execution shenanigans....Advice please!

92 replies

HeyPesto55 · 18/11/2019 21:35

Oh wise mumsnetters, please help me piece this one together as it's somethjng I know very little about.

My lovely, wonderful grandmother (whom I'm very close to) was in a very loving and mutually adoring relationship with a lovely man she met in her village. They were together later in life (late 80s) for some time until he sadly passed away 4 years ago.

Said man had 2 grandsons, nether of whom he saw very often. And neither of whom lived locally. Not really relevant. Just background.

The eldest grandson was executed of the will. Lovely man had told my lovely Grandmother in certainty that he would leave her 1/3 rd of his estate in case she ever needed nursing or care fees. And because he felt that's what he wanted to do. He didn't see grandsons that often. And no great grand children. In fact both my grandmother and lovely man changed their wills at the same time. She could be mistaken in the split but I doubt it very much. She's super smart (and very non money grabbing!)

Just after lovely man's passing, my grandmother receives a letter from the eldest grandson with a personal cheque. The amount is nowhere near a third of the estate. It's clearly a token amount.

My Grandmother tried to ring the solicitors to clarify and was told to speak to the grandson. Now there could be a mix up here but all seems a little squiffy to me.

Do executers send personal cheques? Do you not get a copy / receipt from the solicitors?

How would we ask for evidence of what was in the will? Help!

OP posts:
Collaborate · 18/11/2019 21:41

Get a copy of the will from the probate registry.

HeyPesto55 · 18/11/2019 21:58

Thanks Collaborate. Can anyone do that or does my grandmother have to do it?

OP posts:
Herocomplex · 18/11/2019 22:16

This happened four years ago?

ArnoldBee · 18/11/2019 22:21

Wills are online and cost £1.50 to download for England and Wales.

JellyfishAndShells · 18/11/2019 22:31

It can be a personal cheque if a solicitor is not an executor - some executors choose to open a special account but there is no requirement to do so. As an executor, you are required to keep an account of money in and out. Just because the solicitor drew up the Will, it does not mean that they are Named or appointed executors or have anything to do with obtaining probate or distribution of the estate apart from possibly releasing the original of the Will that they may have had in safe keeping.

HeyPesto55 · 18/11/2019 23:12

It was 4 years ago, yes. I have only just found out about it. My nan doesn't want to pursue anything.

OP posts:
HeyPesto55 · 18/11/2019 23:14

Makes sense, Jellyfish. So no proof needed that assets were appropriately distributed?

I guess we'll try and get a copy of the will and see...

OP posts:
HeyPesto55 · 19/11/2019 07:28

He's not listed on the probate search engine online. What does that mean?! Do all wills have to get listed on there?

OP posts:
ArnoldBee · 19/11/2019 07:31

If he is not listed then either probate has not been granted or his estate was less than £15k which may account for the small amount received.

Collaborate · 19/11/2019 07:34

He's not listed on the probate search engine online. What does that mean?! Do all wills have to get listed on there?

Only if someone has applied for probate to the probate registry.

HeyPesto55 · 19/11/2019 12:20

For clarity, his estate involved the sale of a 4 bed family home in the south east. Surely probate would have to granted for that purpose alone?

I'm really confused. How come it's not entered in that probate list? Am sure I must be missing something but it's quite hard to dispose of assets without probate, no?

OP posts:
HeyPesto55 · 19/11/2019 12:22

It is not a small sum of money. I don't want to be too specific obviously.

OP posts:
HeyPesto55 · 19/11/2019 12:40

ArnoldBee, I've found it! I did an advanced search and my copy is ordered.

I'm a bit nervous. I'm hoping that there was some confusion and my lovely grandmother was left 1/3 of the estate but not inc. the house or something.

Which sounds silly I know but would restore our faith in human kind and mean we can remember the lovely man for being exactly that rather than his final wishes being betrayed by family members for money.

Wish me luck!

OP posts:
ArnoldBee · 19/11/2019 12:42

Excellent!

hopelesssuitcase · 19/11/2019 12:48

If the OP does find out there is something going on here, what can she do? Is there a time limit on claiming, if the Will has been executed incorrectly? Is it theft?

Herocomplex · 19/11/2019 12:55

It’s not a criminal matter as far as I know, it would be a civil case if the executor failed to follow the wishes of the deceased. There’s so many possibilities though, the house was heavily mortgaged, there were large debts to pay before bequests could be met etc.

prh47bridge · 19/11/2019 12:59

If he owned the house with someone else as joint tenants it automatically became theirs when he died. It would not be part of his estate and the joint tenant would not need probate to sell it. However, if he owned the house as sole owner the executors need a grant of probate to sell it. If they have already sold it you need to do some digging. A look at the information held on the property by the Land Registry may help.

HeyPesto55 · 19/11/2019 13:11

Thank you all, you are all so helpful. I'll keep you updated.

Lovely man was mid 90s. No mortgage and no spouse (other than my grandmother as his partner). Only close relatives were 2 grandsons. My GM and him used the same solicitors and took advice on amending their wills together to include each other. They were very much in love and were such a great couple.

I assume the legal route would be next and I don't think we'd go there. My GM has no desire to and I don't think we do either TBH.

But I'd like to know! Still hoping for a misunderstanding Smile

Is there any limit on time though? Is 4 years too late? Probate was passed (?) about 3.5 years ago.

OP posts:
TheMerryWidow1 · 19/11/2019 13:26

An executor is legally responsible for distributing the requirements of the Will, if he hasn't done this and your grandmother is a beneficiary then she would need to seek legal advice. He can't change what is in the Will to suit himself or anyone else.

JellyfishAndShells · 21/11/2019 13:26

A residuary beneficiary is entitled to see the will and the accounts of distribution . That means someone whose inheritance is described as being what is left, or shared amongst others, after expenses and specific legacies are deducted ie if someone is left only specific item (s) or fixed amount, then they aren’t a residual beneficiary and aren’t entitled to see the distribution accounts. Someone who is left 1/3 of estate after all expenses and specific legacies would be.

HeyPesto55 · 21/11/2019 15:11

Thanks Jellyfish. So I got my copy today and it clearly leaves a third of the estate to my grandmother. He was 90s when he died so I fail to see how he could have had any leftover substantial debts to pay.

Is the account of distribution a known document? Does this get filed anywhere?

I'm so angry on his behalf. What kind of lowlifes fail to execute someone's will as they had requested?

OP posts:
dontdoxmeeither · 21/11/2019 15:15

Is there an outside chance that the property hasn't sold and there's more to come? Did one of the GC move into it?

HeyPesto55 · 21/11/2019 15:20

Afraid not. I don't know much about lovely man's personal affairs but I suspect he had savings in addition to the house. The house sold a number of years ago for in excess of 350k

The grandsons are not local.

OP posts:
ArnoldBee · 21/11/2019 15:50

So in the probate attachment how much is the estate worth?

HeyPesto55 · 21/11/2019 15:52

ArnoldBee... I missed that bit! £455k Shock

OP posts:
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