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Legal matters

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Original poster

Relocating for work/nearer to family

49 replies

Afreshstart19 · 29/12/2018 12:11

Ex and I moved from City A to City B before separating. We moved here for ex's job and had DD here (now 5). I had a well paid and good career job in City A and resigned after maternity leave given the distance (3 hours away). Ex and I split up a few months after resigning (I would not have resigned if I knew a split was coming!). In order to survive financially I've had to work in several low paid/boring jobs, despite having a PhD, because there are very few jobs in my field (science) in this city. I have expressed to ex several times I want to move back to City A to continue with my career. As his job is here he has said quite bluntly that he can't move. A lot of resentment has built up. Despite having years of management experience I am now being paid half the salary I had in old town whereas ex has recently been promoted. I do not like the town we are in and have only stayed so DD can be closer to her dad. I am struggling to survive financially yet could earn a good income in old town. I want to move back with DD, for not only my career but also to be closer to my family who live 20 mins from old town. Ex is not open for negotiating and said if I leave DD should stay here since she is already in school. We are currently on 50/50 schedule (although in general I do more than 50%). Can someone please give me some advice on how to go about things. I have an interview for a well paid job in old town. If I'm offered the job I would like to take it and move back to City A with DD. She will have to change schools and we will have to relocate. I will not stop access to her dad. Just to make it clear I have only stayed in this town for DD to have regular access to her father whereas I can no longer survive financially as I am (I've been eating into my savings for years) and I have 3 degrees yet am on the salary I had 10 years ago! Ex pays no form of child-maintenance. Can ex take me to court over wanting to move? Is it necessary I see a lawyer before making the move? If I do get the job do I go ahead and move despite ex disagreeing to the move? Do I need his permission to enrol DD into a new school for example? He is controlling and very difficult to talk to. Advice welcome. Thank you!

OP posts:

Singlenotsingle · 29/12/2018 12:20

That's a lot of questions, OP. So you're a single parent in a city where you don't want to be because you can't earn enough and it's too far from family. Why does ex think he's entitled to dictate where you live, especially if he's not paying any maintenance towards the DD?

Personally I would say if you get the job, just go. You don't need his permission. He isn't entitled to control where you live, which is what he wants to do. He could, in theory, apply to the court for a forbidden steps order to stop you changing dd's school but it's unlikely he'd be successful.

MissMalice · 29/12/2018 12:34

Can ex take me to court over wanting to move?

He can’t stop you moving. He can stop you taking your daughter.

Is it necessary I see a lawyer before making the move?

It would be sensible, yes.

If I do get the job do I go ahead and move despite ex disagreeing to the move?

If you move without his permission, you may find a court decides DD should live with her Dad.

Do I need his permission to enrol DD into a new school for example?
As he has parental responsibility, it is expected you will consult him on a change of school yes. If you make the decision to uproot your daughter from the routine she has, her home and her school without discussing with her father and without seeking a specific issue order in the absence of agreement, a court will not look favourably upon you having acted unilaterally.

Original poster

Afreshstart19 · 29/12/2018 12:40

Thanks Singlenotsingle I feel very stuck here. Ex has insinuated DD stays with him if I move. I am worried if he applied for a forbidden steps order he might be successful.

OP posts:

titchy · 29/12/2018 12:47

So pre-empt him and apply yourself. At least you'll know where you stand. If you have a home, job offer, family support, a school place and a sensible suggestion for how the current level of contact can be maintained in the old city (maybe offer him the lions share of school holidays?) then all the better. Remember you need to demonstrate this move is better for your child.

Original poster

Afreshstart19 · 29/12/2018 12:52

Thanks MissMalice. My follow up questions would be how do I then move with DD if I do not have ex's permission and given my circumstances that I cannot stay here? If we both disagree on where DD should live, what are the next steps? Do I apply for some kind of court order to be able to make the move with DD?

I have discussed a potential move for several years with ex so this isn't a new thing but he is unwilling to discuss in detail things like school changes because he has said that he is staying here and has suggested DD stays here too. Moving without DD is not an option for me. I have already consulted ex about potential new schools and want him to be involved in enrolling in a new school for DD but if he refuses to discuss or accept the move what can I do?

What 'specific issue order' are you referring to? Thanks.

OP posts:

Original poster

Afreshstart19 · 29/12/2018 13:21

Thanks titchy - this is what I am worried about as ex has said move is not in best interests for DD given our current 50/50 schedule.

Is it a Specific Issue Order I should apply for? How do I go about doing this? Once I have a job offer I can use that reason as well as family support. A school place can only be offered once we move (I think) and a new home will only be secure once I pay a deposit but I think in general I have very good reasons for moving & these are also in the best interests of my child.

Thanks, I'll definitely encourage 50/50 to continue although that may be difficult given the distance (3 hours away). Happy to give ex more time in holidays and travel with DD at weekends as needed.

OP posts:

MissMalice · 29/12/2018 13:33

50:50 isn’t going to work if you’re 3 hours apart - the numbers don’t stack up at all. You also need to factor in how onerous the travel will be for your daughter, regardless of who she lives with. If you move away, you may find you have to bear the full cost of travel (and may be required to do all of the actual travelling yourself).

In your shoes, I’d be booking an appointment with a solicitor before doing anything else.

Bishalisha · 29/12/2018 13:38

The courts would not look favourably at you at all if you moved your DD without his permission and could well order that she is returned to live with her Dad as the primary carer.

The courts only care about the best interest of the children. You have a 50/50 arrangement with her Dad and she goes to school in city B

You are proposing to uproot her from her school, her friends and her Dad who she spends 50% of her free time with. This is not like a general every other weekend arrangement and you’re committed to driving to maintain that.

I honestly completely appreciate where you are coming from with difficulty in employment and being able to have a better standard of living in city A but you need to prove it’s in your daughters best interests to made the move.

You will clearly need to go to court to resolve this so you’re best off

researching jobs you could potentially get and the income you could generate
the sort of houses and areas you could live in with your income
the sort of schools in the locality to your affordable area
a variety of contact proposals to show you are dedicated to maintaining the relationship such as 1 weekend a month 75% of holidays and 2-3 weekly Skype etc.

If the roles were reversed what would you be saying to your ex?

titchy · 29/12/2018 14:18

Although the two cities may be 3 hours away, can you move between the two? A 90 minute commute for you is doable, and easier for your dc to travel 90 mins alternate weekends.

Or if you use childcare now can you look for part time roles and argue that you'd be able to spend more time with your child.

Original poster

Afreshstart19 · 29/12/2018 14:23

Bishalisha - I used to live and work in previous city and I have been doing all the research for years. I've wanted to move back for a very long time - it's not something I have just thought about. Plus what's the alternative? To stay in this town so DD can be nearer to her dad while I run out of money/can't afford to live/become utterly depressed? This is not in DD's best interests.

If the roles were reversed what would you be saying to your ex?
I'd be looking at what is best for everyone and ways to maintain 50/50 - not only thinking of what works for me! As mentioned I have sacrificed a lot over the years - putting career on hold, working in low paid jobs, living in a town I dislike, being far away from family/friends just so DD can be close to her father and his job. It doesn't seem fair we should be based in a town purely for ex's job when we are no longer together and I am not making enough money to survive as there are no jobs in my expertise in this town - whereas his career continues to thrive. Being a single parent is tough enough - being a poor single parent is another thing altogether. And the reason I am poor is because I'm staying in current town with no job prospects for me. I have suggested many options to ex - he could move with me, we could live in another city between the two but he is unwilling to discuss any other options.

Surely what would be in DD's best interests is to live in a town where both parents have a chance to further their careers and have a good standard of living and where they can maintain approx 50/50 child-care balance.

OP posts:

Original poster

Afreshstart19 · 29/12/2018 14:28

Thanks titchy - I have suggested living between the two and again ex is unwilling to discuss. This would be a good compromise and we could both commute potentially.

I am applying only for part-time roles and with my previous experience would still be better off than I am now. Yes, hadn't thought of that - I could argue I'd be spending more time with DD.

OP posts:

MissMalice · 29/12/2018 15:25

I think titchy meant you moving 90 mins away. Expecting your ex to move isn’t a reasonable position to take. I’m not surprised he’s not interested in discussing that.

Why is it an option for your DD to move with you but not an option for your DD to stay with her Dad?

FlowersandBloom · 29/12/2018 16:03

I'm not understanding the logic of the other posters. Why is it OK to force OP to say in town without any job prospects yet 'expecting ex to move isn't reasonable'? Why should their location benefit only one parent?

I have been in a similar situation OP and eventually moved away with DC. Could your ex find work in the other town? If he is unwilling to discuss options could you try mediation?

MissMalice · 29/12/2018 16:08

The OP can move wherever she likes. She cannot unilaterally demand her daughter moves with her.

Singlenotsingle · 29/12/2018 16:14

The ex would have to go to court to try to stop her. Would he do it? Could he be bothered with all that? It's very expensive and he would have to spend time in solicitors' offices, seeing barrister and then going to court. Only he knows...

howtotrainyourdragqueen · 29/12/2018 16:24

What city do you live in and what field is your PhD?

MissMalice · 29/12/2018 16:31

Would he do it? Could he be bothered with all that?

GreenTulips · 29/12/2018 16:43

You need to do this whilst she’s young. It will be harder as they get older.

You make very reasonable arguments for the move and that really stands out.

What are his arguments for not moving?

FlowersandBloom · 29/12/2018 17:40

She cannot unilaterally demand her daughter moves with her.

MissMalice, are you suggesting OP leaves her daughter behind? And why is it OK for the dad to suggest the daughter stays where he is but not for OP to take daughter with her? Surely, they need to come up with a solution that works for both parents.

MissMalice · 29/12/2018 18:24

MissMalice, are you suggesting OP leaves her daughter behind?

No. We are on the Legal board. If the OP takes the daughter without her ex’s permission, she might find the courts decide to order that the daughter lives with her father - hence “she cannot unilaterally demand her daughter moves with her.”

The solution does not need to “work for both parents”. The solution needs to work for the child.

GreenTulips · 29/12/2018 18:34

Then he can’t demand she’s left behind

OP can clearly show she has a job school housing and family support

She has attended all appointments etc

Where’s dad in this?

MissMalice · 29/12/2018 18:36

Where’s Dad? They have a 50/50 arrangement. This isn’t some deadbeat dad who doesn’t contribute. And more to the point, it’s less Dad’s potential losses in this that I’m bothered about and more the daughter’s losses in being moved three hours away from a Dad she normally sees for half of the week.

FlowersandBloom · 29/12/2018 18:40

MissMalice if she doesn't have ex's permission to move then what do you suggest? That she leaves and takes her child (you've said no), she doesn't take her child (you've said no) or she stays put in an unfeasible situation?

Of course, the solution needs to work for the child but any effective coparenting schedule is decided by the parents and what works for them and the one in place doesn't work for OP.

MissMalice · 29/12/2018 18:44

That she applies to court and gains the appropriate order. Again, this is the legal board. That is the correct legal process. If the court decides the child must stay living in City B, OP has already said that moving away without her daughter is “not an option” and therefore she would presumably stay in City B and make it work.

MissMalice · 29/12/2018 18:46

Acting unilaterally is unfair on the child, unfair on the father and puts her at a disadvantage if the father took the matter to court.
It is likely to result in conflict between the parents. That is not in the child’s best interests.

Would you hold the same position if this was a Dad with a 50/50 arrangement suggesting he just moved away without the Mum’s agreement? If not, why not?

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