Relocating for work/nearer to family

[Afreshstart19]

Ex and I moved from City A to City B before separating. We moved here for ex's job and had DD here (now 5). I had a well paid and good career job in City A and resigned after maternity leave given the distance (3 hours away). Ex and I split up a few months after resigning (I would not have resigned if I knew a split was coming!). In order to survive financially I've had to work in several low paid/boring jobs, despite having a PhD, because there are very few jobs in my field (science) in this city. I have expressed to ex several times I want to move back to City A to continue with my career. As his job is here he has said quite bluntly that he can't move. A lot of resentment has built up. Despite having years of management experience I am now being paid half the salary I had in old town whereas ex has recently been promoted. I do not like the town we are in and have only stayed so DD can be closer to her dad. I am struggling to survive financially yet could earn a good income in old town. I want to move back with DD, for not only my career but also to be closer to my family who live 20 mins from old town. Ex is not open for negotiating and said if I leave DD should stay here since she is already in school. We are currently on 50/50 schedule (although in general I do more than 50%). Can someone please give me some advice on how to go about things. I have an interview for a well paid job in old town. If I'm offered the job I would like to take it and move back to City A with DD. She will have to change schools and we will have to relocate. I will not stop access to her dad. Just to make it clear I have only stayed in this town for DD to have regular access to her father whereas I can no longer survive financially as I am (I've been eating into my savings for years) and I have 3 degrees yet am on the salary I had 10 years ago! Ex pays no form of child-maintenance. Can ex take me to court over wanting to move? Is it necessary I see a lawyer before making the move? If I do get the job do I go ahead and move despite ex disagreeing to the move? Do I need his permission to enrol DD into a new school for example? He is controlling and very difficult to talk to. Advice welcome. Thank you!

I had a friend in a similar position but the kids hadn't started school. Dad took it to court and prevented mum taking the kids, so she had to turn job offer down and stay put.

OP is not 'acting unilaterally'. Otherwise, she wouldn't be here asking for advice. She has stated she can 'no longer survive financially' as she is and ex is unwilling to discuss.

I would hold the same position if it were the Dad if he had the same reasons for wanting to move away. That's why I have suggested mediation so hopefully there comes a solution that works for both.

he would have to spend time in solicitors' offices, seeing barrister and then going to court

He would not need a barrister.

OP is not 'acting unilaterally'

If she acts without the agreement of her child's father or an appropriate court order as some posters have suggested, she will be acting unilaterally. As MissMalice says, that would put her at a disadvantage if the father did take it to court.

I'm surprised, and I expect the Court would be too, that the OP maintains she cannot find work in City B - we're not taking about a small rural town presumably, a City means a location where the Father could argue the OP has ample opportunity, resource, qualifications and intelligence to pursue a career if she chose. She isn't an unskilled worker, she has 3 Degrees. I'm amazed she can't repurpose those skills and knowledge in numerous ways either pt or ft work.

The Court will look at the hard facts and likely state that the Father is taking responsibility for their child and the OP moved willingly to City B (presumably didn't go kicking and screaming there?).

As the Legal posters have pointed out, OP should apply to court for a specific issue order. This will enable her to change schools without the permission of the father. There is a risk that the court would order that the child remains in city B and therefore lives with the father, but much will depend on the individual circumstances, and therefore OP should seek legal advice.

Op, if your Ex H objects and you are aware of his objections you can't move your daughter without a court deciding on it.
No parent can change a child's school without agreement from the other parent.

If you want to move email your ex to say this is something you want him to consider, suggest meditation and then if no progress apply for a specific issues order.
Courts generally support parents moving on however there has to be consideration to the other parent. 50% contact will be difficult to replicate 3 hours away so that will be a major hurdle. Does your Ex also have family closeby? Could he realistically be the main carer?
Cafcass is likely to be involved to assess the impact and make a recommendation to the court.

What is your Ex likely to propose as an alternative? Would he suggest he becomes the primary carer?

If he can object to her moving then surely she can object to him him not moving?

She has more to gain by moving and in turn the child benefits

See a solicitor

If he can object to her moving then surely she can object to him not moving

He cannot object to her moving. He can object to her taking her child with her. She certainly cannot force him to move (which is what objecting to him not moving amounts to).

Thank you for all the replies - just read through them all. I want to make a few things clear.

I have tried all sorts of jobs whilst I have been here to try to make it work. Don't you think I have tried daisychain01? Yes, I have 3 degrees including a PhD in a science field. City B is a city but a small one which has very few science jobs, and barely any in my particular field. I have a job vaguely related that pays the same salary I had 10 years ago with little chance of progression! So while ex has been promoted & earns a much higher salary than I do I am suffering financially because I am based in a city that does not specialise in my chosen career. How is this fair? I have sacrificed my career for years and a decent salary by staying in a city only because my ex is here & to maintain 50/50. It's been good for DD but is just not sustainable in the long run and is a waste of my education/experience. Ex knows this and yet is unwilling to discuss any alternatives. Both ex and I used to work in City A and I know he could also find a good job there too. So, why should we both be based in a city that benefits just one of us to maintain 50/50?

Some of you seem to imply I have to choose between a decent job/returning to my career/earning enough money to live on or leaving my DD with her father. Also, how is this fair? It's not ok for my ex to suffer seeing less of DD. But it's ok for me because I need to move to make money? How is this in my DD's best interests? I have suggested that ex moves with us or nearer to us. DD will also benefit from being much closer to extended family (grandparents, cousins etc) who currently live 3 hours away. Ex has no family in UK. I would never leave DD behind and staying with her father wouldn't be an option because he works full-time whereas I will be part-time (the interview I have is for a part-time position) & I can therefore do all school pick ups and drop offs etc as well as family offering support whereas ex would have to hire additional help etc.

I have been discussing a potential move with ex for YEARS. This isn't a new thing. I am not 'acting unilaterally' (thanks FlowersandBloom for pointing out). I'm asking what can I do if my ex refuses to discuss any other options. I'm at the end of my tether living here. I will suggest mediation, find a solicitor and look into the specific issue order. Thanks.

“especially if he's not paying any maintenance towards the DD? “

He isn’t paying maintenance because if the 50/50 arrangement, presumably.

OP I am very sorry you are in this situation and hope you can find a way through.

Please, please, women, consider this thread before you give up your career in favour of your partner’s.

because I am based in a city that does not specialise in my chosen career. How is this fair?

I would expect your ex to argue that this was a choice you made freely. Also, the court won’t care about what’s fair for you, only what is right for your daughter.

Some of you seem to imply I have to choose between a decent job/returning to my career/earning enough money to live on or leaving my DD with her father. Also, how is this fair?
I can see how it feels unfair and it is a choice you will be left with if your ex doesn’t agree and the court doesn’t agree you can take your daughter.

It's not ok for my ex to suffer seeing less of DD
This is the wrong way round. It’s not about you or your ex suffering, it’s about your daughter’s relationship with her father significantly changing because you want to move. Also her friends, her school etc. If this ends up in court, you must keep child focused.

I did not say at any point that you are acting unilaterally, btw. You did ask what would happen if you just moved without his permission. That would be acting unilaterally.

It’s not reasonable to suggest he moves with you. I wouldn’t recommend bringing that idea up in court.

FWIW, I’m in a similar situation to you albeit many further years down the line. I get the frustration of being held back because of a decision made many years ago. I simply value my children’s 50/50 arrangement to move any significant distance away.

If you’re only going to be working part time, could it be argued that isn’t going to allow you to advance very far in any career?

@missmalice is making some very valid points that you will come across in court. At the end of the day, if you genuinely want to move you will need to go to court to grant the specific issues order. You may be surprised and they may grant it, but they may not. You need to prepare your case 100% in regards to your daughter and how you plan to facilitate contact. It’s not about how his career has progressed and yours stagnated, it’s about the child and only the child. 50:50 arrangements with a school age child and 3 hours between the parents is not sustainable in the long term, so you will need to offer something that works for everyone.

My ex is currently dragging me through the court process for sole custody of a child he has barely seen for the last 2 years due to violent convictions. He too lives 3 hours away. I have always been the main parent as a default position. The courts are only interested in what’s best for our son. 50:50 would not work if for whatever reason he was granted sole custody- so I would immediately move to the area he currently lives in.

Please invite him to attend mediation and lay out your plans. If that fails then go to court. I wish you luck.

3 hours between the parents is not sustainable in the long term,

If OP moved halfway, 1.5 hours between them would possibly be sustainable though. An every Friday to Saturday evening wouldn't be too onerous in terms of travel for the child. Meeting halfway between OP's location 90 mins away and ex's location would mean a 45 min journey for child which could mean midweek contact could happen once or twice a week.

I suppose if OP could offer every other weekend and half the holidays that takes it to 75:25 roughly, and if she could facilitate an arrangement weekly as mentioned above and an additional Skype that could work.

What’s the normal arrangement like OP? Is it 1 week on 1 week off or something else?

Go to court get it sorted out properly or you could be ordered back or your EX could end up being the RP.

Seeming to save money upfront by NOT sorting out the legal stuff NOW before you move could end up biting for far more down the line.

So spend money and see a solicitor and get it sorted properly. As courts do now change residence of children when the RP moves long distances without permission of the NRP.

In my experience having been to court over a relocation, the court does not consider the needs or fairness of either parent unless there is a fundamental survival issue. It is all about the child and what the potential disruption or impact is on them. This is a really tricky situation given it’s a 50/50 arrangement and the DD is already at school and so OP would need to be able to show what the direct benefits are to DD and how she would maintain and support contact.

Thanks all. I will arrange for mediation/lawyer asap.

I simply value my children’s 50/50 arrangement to move any significant distance away

@missmalice - It's really not as simple as this. I have just decided to up and leave. I have stayed in City B for the last 5 years only for the only purpose of 50/50 whilst sacrificing my own career. I also value my own career that I spent 8 years studying for and another 10 years working in. I can't give that all up permanently just to stay in City B. Also, I do value 50/50 in the future which I why I hope ex also moves to City A with me (in the past he said he would, but has recently changed his mind).

I do understand the legalities are child focused and I do believe DD moving with me will be better for her too. We will have a better level of life, living in a city which more opportunities for her also. I'll be earning more money and we will be nearer to all of my/her extended family too and I will keep regular contact with her father in which ever way possible.

Just for others I o believe DD moving with me will be better for her too

This is the challenge, proving to a court it will be better for a child. The NRP can challenge each point as Cafcass and courts favour the status quo..especially if it is working for the child.

It is often mothers who move to support a husband's career (I did) and then get stuck in the location after divorce. I would encourage women to put themselves first as Ex husband's certainly will.

I don't understand what the problem is here.

Why not simply move to the new city and let the father become the parent with care. You can still see your daughter every other weekend and over 50% of the holidays.

Surely this ticks all the boxes?

Daughter is 5. So stability of school probably not such an issue as if she were about to do GCSEs. However if she is near her other grandparents where she is and as we know her father has her half the time may be the mother could as suggested move 90 minutes away - work in her preferred town and in the half of the week she has her daughter commute the 90 minutes or stay locally for those nights.

Moving daughter away might be possible if the court orders it but if the mother will just be working part time anyway that will not be great pay, probably will not enable a home to be bought and basically destroy the relationship with the father who currently has her about half the time.

Longer term which is the better city for prospects and teenage opportunities and good schools for the girl too might be worth considering too.

Sorry to message as I know it has been a while but what did your case end up with? I’m in a similar situation now and trying to get out. It would be great to know your update.

thank you!

@DressForRevenge it might be easier if you start a new thread with more information.

Have you considered calling DFs bluff? Offering him Monday-Friday and less of the holidays? It means you cut almost all your childcare costs, get more quality time with your dc, and can do full-time so better earning potential, but you’re still 50/50 on paper so owe no CMS.

Thank you for the reply! It’s really tempting and I think in a perfect world would be a good idea but in reality I’m worried most childcare will be done by MIL or some sort of GF and won’t be consistent or good. I see bits of negligence/“that will do” already and I don’t know if I can deal with it :( Would love to call bluff!!!

hi OP how did it go. Did you move? am in similar situation and wanting to learn what are the things to consider...xx