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Legal matters

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Original poster

Nursery said it was OK to leave. Now changed mind and want fees!

37 replies

Paloma82 · 06/07/2018 12:47

Hello All,
I’m hoping someone can help my frustrating situation.

In April we gave notice to the admin team of our nursery to leave in July. We missed the deadline by a week, and was told if we leave we have to pay the fees (sept-dec) or we have to keep her in until December. Ok, a hard pill to swallow, but it was our fault so we planned to move in December instead.

Just a week ago, before the last day of nursery, the teachers at nursery said they didn’t have a place for our daughter in September as they were told she was leaving. Confused, I contacted admin again to confirm this, and lo and behold, they now said, yes the notice we gave was sufficient, so we can leave. Happy days! As we wanted our daughter to start with the new nursery in September. So we signed her up, got everything sorted with the new nursery.

Now, today, admin have said. Sorry for the confusion, you actually didn’t give enough notice so you have to pay the fees!

Seriously, if I wasn’t afraid of being taken to court or ruining my credit score, i’d Tell them how sh*t their admin is and how unprofessional and damn right stupid this is, on that basis I’m not paying. But I want to do this right and hopefully carry on as planned.

Can anyone offer any advice? Can I just withhold the fees on the basis that they emailed to confirm there was enough notice and that we signed up our daughter to the new nursery now.

Thanks! P

OP posts:
CassandraLamontaigne · 06/07/2018 12:48

I'm not a legal expert but I'd say you have it in writing so you're all good to not pay

Original poster
Paloma82 · 06/07/2018 12:53

Would it matter that it was an email, not a letter?

OP posts:
heatwave2018 · 06/07/2018 12:56

If you have written permission then you are in the right. There are free legal clinics in my area to attend for a one off session so it would be best doing that or call their bluff and say you have spoken to a solicitor and you aren't legally entitled to pay fees due to written consent

timeisnotaline · 06/07/2018 12:56

Email is in the writing. You can calmly say it’s very unprofessional to flip flop like this. You told me it would be fine to finish date x without paying till December. If you tried to take me to small claims they would see your email and laugh it out of town. Dc will be finishing x date and we will not be paying fees after that.

Lougle · 06/07/2018 12:58

If you have it in writing (email is writing) then I can't see how they can say otherwise, but I guess if there is a term in the contract that says something about errors or omissions, they could be covered? Does your home insurance have legal cover? It might be worth asking for some legal advice.

Kirbs1979 · 06/07/2018 13:00

Not a legal expert either but if they don't have a place for her then surely they can't still charge you.
Personally I would ask them to confirm if they have a place for her until December then. If they said no then I would advise them if I pay it will be under protest but I would then be immediately issuing a small claim against them for the fees and costs I'd incurred. I'd point out i would have been keeping my child there until December and it was only after their email confirming the fees did not have to be paid I'd signed my child up to a new nursery.
Again, I'm not a legal expert it's just what I would do.

CassandraLamontaigne · 06/07/2018 13:08

Could you ask for this thread to be moved to legal?

Imchlibob · 06/07/2018 13:10

Sounds like they were planning to charge twice for the same place - they took your notice and cancelled the place, gave the place to a child on the waiting list but intend to take your money anyway.

They can't have it both ways - either your child has a place until December or you don't have to pay the fees for September to December. They can't demand a fee without offering any service in exchange.

Original poster
Paloma82 · 06/07/2018 13:11

Thanks for the help guys!
It’s good to see that their email they sent will actually hold weight of this did go to court. I would very much like to do one email back to summarise and tell them that we won’t be paying.
I will check the contract for error/omission clause and pray it doesn’t have this!

OP posts:
shoelaces · 06/07/2018 13:13

Check your home insurance or if you are a member of a trade union, you may have free legal advice and expenses for personal issues. I'd recommend you get advice and stick to your guns.

I would go so far as to tell them to register it as a debt and that once they do, you will be able to lodge a claim in the small claims court for the balance. You can contact credit reference agencies to place a note on your record while the dispute is ongoing.

Original poster
Paloma82 · 06/07/2018 14:53

Thank you! Will check my home insurance.

Yes, please can we move this to legal??
Would love further advice from anyone with a legal background

OP posts:
CassandraLamontaigne · 07/07/2018 11:39

I'm not sure but I think you need to report your own thread and ask for it to be moved to legal.

ForgivenessIsDivine · 07/07/2018 12:01

nappyvalleynet.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=71386

The thread above says that fees in lieu of notice are based on expected losses. The nursery cannot profit from this so of they have filled the place, they should refund the fees in lieu of notice. This term is included in the contract of many nurseries.

If I have understood correctly, your child's place is no longer available for her and based on that information you signed up with the other nursery, so the fees in lieu of notice are not enforceable.

Original poster
Paloma82 · 07/07/2018 13:30

Great thank you.
The teachers were adamant that there was no availability for our daughter in September, so I will add this to my email.

Have requested via report to move to legal section.

OP posts:
Jonbb · 07/07/2018 20:44

There is something in contract law called promissory estoppel where you have relied upon a promise to your detriment. Don't pay it, as you probablyarent liable for it. If they want the money let them sue you. I'm sure you will be fine.

Original poster
Paloma82 · 07/07/2018 21:47

Thanks Jon. I just did a quick google on Promissory Estoppel. So, if I understand rightly, as they told us (promised) that we can leave and we have organised our daughter in another nursery at our expense. We then, do not have to pay their fees?
I would like to add this to my reply.
I really want to squash this in one very well prepared response.
Thanks

OP posts:
Jonbb · 08/07/2018 17:11

Yes, because you relied on what they said, you arranged another nursery, with fees which you wouldn't have done if you had known you would have to also pay the old nursery fees. As you say, you wouldnt have moved her until Dec. Their fault, their loss. A wake up call to them to get their admin in order. Promissory estoppel can be used only as a 'shield', which means as a defence to proceedings. Not as a 'sword', so not as the basis for proceedings. Hope this helps. Let us know!

Original poster
Paloma82 · 08/07/2018 20:22

Great, thanks Jon x

OP posts:
ReservoirDogs · 08/07/2018 20:23

Was just going to say tell them as you relied on their representation to your detriment tgey are estopped from pursuing you!

Original poster
Paloma82 · 09/07/2018 06:06

Ah I see! Thanks ;)

OP posts:
Original poster
Paloma82 · 13/07/2018 12:45

Hi guys, they have contacted me today, by email. Basically saying that our daughter is still part of the nursery and they will be invoicing us for the next term. In fact two separate people have emailed. Sounds a little desperate, Maybe they want us to confirm on email, as they realise they’re mistake?

Anyway, Here is the reply I’m planning on sending below. If you have a moment I would much appreciate any feedback. Thank you all! Xx

Dear

The email you sent to us (copied below) on the 5th July. We took this as formal notice to leave.

We also stated that on the 5th July, the teachers at (nursery name) informed us that they had not organised a space for (daughter) for September. We understood that (daughters) place was no longer available.

Based on this information, we signed (daughter) up to a new nursery, at our own detriment. So fees in lieu of notice are not enforceable.

We will pay the outstanding monthly fee due for this month July, and (daughter) will not be returning in September. Please update your records.

Kind Regards,
Paloma

OP posts:
Imchlibob · 14/07/2018 01:34

A small addition:

So fees in lieu of notice are not enforceable because of your own actions. We were prepared to keep (daughter) attending with you for a notice period until December. You cancelled this at your own instigation when you informed us that the place was no longer available from September.

Original poster
Paloma82 · 14/07/2018 14:50

Thank you!
The only thing is, it was the teachers at the nursery that said to us verbally that they had not organised a place for our daughter. It wasn’t the admin team and they didn’t say this in writing. Was verbal only. Still ok to put this?
I can state what teachers it was and what date they told us?
Thanks x

OP posts:
Imchlibob · 14/07/2018 15:17

This bit from your OP: Confused, I contacted admin again to confirm this, and lo and behold, they now said, yes the notice we gave was sufficient, so we can leave. - did that not happen by email?

Oblomov18 · 14/07/2018 15:21

You have a very good case here. Hold your line, don't back down!!