Grandparents rights

[katem454]

Hey, just wondering what rights a grandparent would have if their son wasn't on the birth certificate and thr mother was saying he wasn't the father. I know legally the father in question could do something legally but what about his family?

I don't like her and vice versa

You have contact with the older child. The mum sounds more than reasonable.

Your son sounds like scum of the highest order. The children are clearly better off without him.

This thread is a perfect example of why I think Esther Rantzen's campaign is so misguided.

Grandparents currently have no legal rights to access to grandchildren. Not unless they have been specifically appointed as their legal guardians.

That is how it should stay.

You seem to be in total denial about your son's disgusting behaviour, and are minimising it. I wouldn't want any children of mine to have contact with you. I would worry that you would be incapable of keeping them safe because you seem to think that the sun shines out of your son's arse and would have him present if you were allowed contact.

based on your latest update.
oky doky love.

I appreciate all the comments but no one knows the ins and outs. Prior to all of this she told me she'd asked my son to have drug tests that he refused and said she didn't want him on the birth certificate or at the birth so legally I have her. Now she's saying he's not the father and won't give him the date of birth. Do I have a leg to stand on as my son wont push to gain parental rights or a dna! What can I do?

If he doesn't give enough of a shit to get a dna test, then there is nothing you can do - so far as the court is concerned you are nothing, you have no biological or legal link to that child.
So if I were you, I'd stop antagonising the mother and try to build bridges.

I've got to ask is this a reverse, as it's bonkers. The far too casual he is up in court for GBH (but is innocent honest guv!), it's not good at all. No court in the land is going to give grandparents access. Long hard sit down and deep breath, if this isn't a reverse, you need to decide build a relationship with the mother of your grandchildren or to stand by him. As I can't see the two mixing at all.

so legally I have her

This is the absolute worst thing I have ever heard anyone say on mumsnet.

They should lock you up with your ds.

"legally I have her" - Sorry but you really don't have her

I don't think anyone other then a parent can control what is on the birth certificate, so you can not apply to have your son recognised as the farther if neither him nor the mother want this. So as far as the law is concerned you are not the child's grandparent.

You could try to persuade your son to apply (he has the right to be recognised as farther, even if he is an unsuitable parent), but considering the current set up means he's not liable for maintenance, I don't think he's going to be keen.

Seriously the legal route is not going to work for you, and if you try she is likely to rescind her offer for contact with her present. I know we will never know the full story and you could have many valid reasons for not wanting to be around her. But you are going to have to decide whether they are more or less important then contact with DGC because her offer is likely to be your only chance.

Prior to all of this she told me she'd asked my son to have drug tests that he refused and said she didn't want him on the birth certificate or at the birth so legally I have her.

I’m not sure what you think you have but you have nothing. It doesn’t matter what she said to your son, you have no rights to see this child. Get that into your head.

You have raised an abusive son.

Think hard about why you think grandchildren will benefit from a relationship with you.

I honestly think grandparents rights are a terrible idea, for every cliched loving grandparent there is a controlling parent trying to exercise influence over their children through the next generation when those adult children may have very good reasons to break off the relationship.

My parents and in laws are great, I'm glad my children will have a good relationship with them. But my grandparents were mostly dead or abroad and I don't feel I missed out, and our parents will have a relationship mediated through us, the parents. having to go to a contact centre for two hours a month with a stranger who hates your mother when you have no contact with your father honestly doesn't sound like the best thing for a child.

As others have said, work on your relationship with your son and try and reflect on why he's turned out this way and if you can support him to step up for his children. That's the best way to be a loving grandparent in your situation I can think of.

I can see why your ds is a selfish drunk, and has drug problems. The apple didn't fall far from the tree did it.

YOUR post is probably the most selfish post I have read on here in a long time. IT's all about what YOU want, what YOU need. YOU aren't for one moment thing about YOUR grandchild/children.

And if I was the poor mother of YOUR grandchild/children I would be looking to move far away from you and your son as possible.

How about spending the time you would on trying to interfere in the life of mother of grandchild you put that time and effort into making your son a better person and father.

Notwithstanding the fact that I think this is a faux post, the opinions given are just that, opinions.

The law states that a grandparent (like anyone else) can make an application to the court for permission to apply for a child arrangements order to spend time with a child. Proving a biological relationship between the grandmother and child does not require the father, the grandmother can supply a sample for comparison with the child's DNA - so if the mother denies the father is the biological parent, the grandmother can still prove the grandchild is hers if the court orders testing. The court will make an order based on what is in the child's best interests.

That said, it appears the GM already has a relationship with one of the children and should do her best to build trust with the mother so she can have a relationship with the new baby, rather than threaten court in the first instance.

(If in fact the tale is true - it really all sounds rather far fetched.)

You can’t do anything.

Grandparents have no legal rights.

The only way you will ever be a part of those children’s lives is if you start being nicer to their mother.

Christ alive.

LEAVE HER ALONE. Why the hell should you get to see this baby ??!

This can't be real, nobody would make themselves sound so unhinged and entitled surely?

Nobody would think they will get court ordered access to a newborn baby alone surely? Even if the father was in the birth certificate he wouldn't get court ordered access alone (maybe in extreme cases at a contact centre without the mother). A breastfed baby under 6 months old will never be separated by the court for their mother for contact.

Especially with someone who thinks they might be the baby's grandma although the mother says they are not, and doesn't know the baby's name or date of birth and can't prove a relationship at all