Title deeds not matching the title register

[Ginosaji]

Is it possible for these two different documents not to match?

After the death of my mil, fil said that he had changed his will so that his portion of the house (there is no mortgage) will pass to dh & sil equally, so that they will then get 50% of proceeds from the house sale as their names are both already on the title deeds

Now 5 years down the line fil is getting remarried, and said that he wanted to change his will again so that his portion of the house go entirely to his new wife (fair enough) & said that he wanted both dh & sil to sign legal documents to say that they wont force the sale of the house upon his death, they had no intention of doing that anyway, but agreed if it gave him peace of mind

Last week though, fil rang to say that he realises that the only hope me and dh have of getting on the property ladder is with the money from the sale of this house upon the death of both him and his future wife, which could be many many years away, so he had come up with a solution

The solution was that future wife would sell her property (again no mortgage) and give both dh & sil a cut, equating to what they would get from the sale of fil's property based on current market value, but at the same time asked that in order for this to happen, he wanted dh & sil to sign paperwork to remove their names from the title deeds of his house, he said that this could all be put in motion after the wedding (which is happing in a few months)

Dh & sil agreed to this plan as it seemed like a plan that would suit everyone for various reasons, then last night fil rang again, and said that though he wanted to still go ahead with this plan, he wanted to make a small adjustment to it, future smil has a cat, which still lives at her property, apparently the cat is settled at the house & she doesn't want to upset it by moving it (cat is about 10 years old)

So fil's new plan is for dh & sil to remove their names from the deeds of his house soon and then when the cat eventually passes away, its an indoor cat if that's relevant, that property will then be sold as per his last plan and dh & sil given a portion on money from the sale

All this is now making no sense to me & dh, as it all seems rather strange, so this morning as i was really curious by now i went onto land registry and bought a copy of the title register for his property as none of this situation is making much sense

But according to the title register, the owners of fil's property are two people we have never even heard of! I guess its possible that these were the people fil bought the property from many years ago, but if the title register says they are the owners, how can the deeds have fil, dh & sil names on?

Sorry for the essay, its just that this is all so confusing & wanted to try my best not to drip feed

Well ive got the will it seems we were mislead (doesn't surprise me) turns out mil left all her share of the estate to fil after all, and all tho it don't state this in the will, i don't think she ever expected fil to remarry so probably assumed that dh & sil would then get it all once he passed as per the plan he proposed after she died but before he began his relationship

Will says he is executor and that he is to receive it all unless he dies himself within 30 days of her, which of course he did not, so im thinking that he only got dh & sil names put on the title register/deed of the house in the first place to try and avoid the whole lot possibly being taken by care home fees should he need care, but now he's got another woman, and they are getting married and she had said she would care for him so i guess thats that

But if your dh and sil are now on deeds they do own half. I would not sign anything.

I think Purple has a point - names on title deed = part owners

I don’t think that the will supersedes the deeds. Find a solicitor ASAP or ask on here if there are any around as it seems a very straightforward question

I don't think it changes anything. There could have been a deed of variation after she died which meant that her 50% of the house passed straight to DH and SIl. In fact I would guess there was or the avoiding care home fees wheeze might be worthless. (When we had the issues with my DP house SS were very interested in the legal situation regarding DB's and my interest in their house). I don't know how you find out about that- did your husband get legal advice when he got the 25%? If he has changed his mind- tough.
Their names are still on the deeds and they own 25% of the house each. I would still insisit on being bought out of it if I were DH or SIL.
Actually - depending on how it is worded they might own 33% each.
See a solicitor. It is going to get nastier. He is already disowning SIL by the looks of it, so she has nothing to lose. And don't let him ( them) play DH and SIL off against each other!
Sorry about typos on previous message- blinking phone auto correct.

Hmmm very good point @Purpletoes based on the deeds they currently each have a 25% stake in the house, which together would add up to mil's original 50% , if they take their names away, then apart from being risky, it also means that smil's children will end up with a chunk of what I strongly believe mil fully intended to be passed on to dh & sil, if only she had actually put that in the will and not trusted fil

No, no legal advice @Daisymay2 fil just asked them both to do it so they did, he lead them to believe it was inheritance from mil, and said that instead of waiting for him to die to get the lot, they should put their names to the deeds to avoid ss taking the lot for care fees which would mean they would get nothing at all, so he made it seem like they were protecting their mums share

I think other posters are right. The will changes nothing. The fact is they own a share of the house, it may very well have been a deed of variation. They should not take their names off. Independent legal advice would be good.

The whole deed of variation thing makes sense, i think theres a very good chance thats whats happened, i will suggest to both dh & sil that they seek their own legal advice before doing anything

Thanks everyone for your advice, it's comforting to know im not the only one who thinks this is all dodgy and that the cat situation is quite frankly a load of bollocks (direct quote from sil when dh told her about fil's latest plan)

Dh got home a little while ago, told him about this thread and all the advice, he's going to speak to sil as he agrees that they should do this together

He also said that at the time of signing the paperwork to put him & sil on the deeds, tho he cant remember exactly what was said (this happened back in 2014) he does recall fil mentioning something about a deed of variation

You DH and his DS would be made to give up their share of the house. A deed of variation is an amendment to the Will and as such it should be done and dusted and there is no reason on earth why they should give their share to their father. Lets say the house is worth 300K - so 75K each to DH and SIL. Give it back to their father and possibly get 50K back IF FIL and his new wife keep their word
I wonder if the wedding will go ahead if your DH and SILsay no and she discovers that she won't get her hands on the house?
As I said, my father told a lot of people he owned the house -and it was worth almost twice as much as it was- and he genuinely thought he did although he knew Mum had left her half of the house to us. Came unstuck when he tried equity release.....

Sorry mad not made.....
and a strikethrough fail.

Oh i think the wedding would still go ahead, if dh & sil refuse to take their names off the deeds then she would be forced to revert to one of the previous plans and sell her place and buy them out, otherwise she will never be able to fully relax after fil dies as she would always be wondering when dh & sil would start legal proceedings to force the sale of the house, her having that house lock stock and barrel seems to be her ultimate goal

"I told dh earlier not to agree to sign anything till we get the copy of mil's will to see exactly what it says"

Wills can be re-written 10 minutes after they were signed. Seeing her will gives him NO security whatsoever. ONLY signing over the deeds to her house or giving him money will give him security.

Aaargh - why do men do this? Put theior new partners over their own children in terms of inheritance? WHY shouldyour DH and SIL not have the house that was left them by their mother, when new wife already has property? It's madness!

@ScrubTheDecks - think you’ve misunderstood, OP wanted to see late mils will, not the will of the new step mil.

Personally I think your DH needs to step away from the madness. I would ask him to just tell FIL no. I would suggest he sell his house buys you all out and they put that together with the money from her house and they buy something new together!

I think dh's worried about being disowned too, sil was crying about this all yesterday, they have already lost their mum, fil has gone nc with sil and i think dh is worried the same will happen to him if he stands his ground, which i think it would as fil is basically a big child who strops when things don't go his way

Also given his attitude lately I believe that in sil's case at least if she signs her part of the house away he wont leave her anything at all because shes not 'doing as shes told'

Either me or dh are going to say to her about not removing their names and seeking independent legal advice, fil will kick off, then probably insist that they see his solicitor and that he comes with them, thats the sort of thing he does, he's very controlling, they wont agree to that of course, but it wont stop him trying

Either way this is not going to end well, but whatever fil does dh & sil have each other

Sorry, dont mean sil was crying all day, just got really upset about all that's happening

Well, you already know NOT to see FIL's solicitor or allow FIL to accompany them!!
I don't think FILs solicitor can ( or rather should) advise you as your solicitor should give you independent advice in YOUR best interest. This hare, brained scheme does not seem to be.
It seems that your DH and SIL are going to end up having little contact anyway if FIL is such a bully and besoted with his new fiancee, so they need to stick together.

But didn't FIL say that this latest suggestion was so you could get your inheritance now so you could get on the property ladder? If that was truly the case then it would be easy enough to say actually don't worry we can wait.

However can I just point out that he said that he wanted to make the change to release the money for you now so you can buy a house. If this is no longer happening then what's his reason for removing your names from the deeds now? Surely if it's not for the money then it can wait until the money is available. The cat is a decoy excuse.

I have no idea @MaverickSnoopy thats why its all so confusing, i mean, him saying to take the names off the deeds of his house and selling her house right away and giving dh & sil a share of the proceeds to effectively buy them out made sense, that way everyone was happy

But to then only a week later ring to say that tho he wanted to do that except we had to wait for a cat to die first (bearing in mind the cats only 10 years old) made no sense especially as he still wanted dh & sil to take their names off the deeds of his house asap, yet expect them to wait years (or however long the cat lasts) to actually receive any money, and given fil's age (late 70's) and poor health, the cat could easily outlive him!

I agree. The original plan of letting them have money now is really sensible although if I were the new wife I would not be giving a share of my existing home to a new man's children, no way on earth but that's up to her - was she coerced into it? I don't want you get this money and later she comes back to claim it saying she was conned by her boyfriend into giving it over? Anyway apart from that it sounded like a good plan until the cat thing came in which made me wonder if he had dementia it is so weird!

Why not just say you think it is best to keep things as they are as it is what their mother would have wanted? My father put the house into joint names with us when our mother died (even though she left everything to him). It worked fine but then he didn't get a new girl friend it so it was pretty simple.

No i dont think she was conned into it, everytime the plan has changed its always seemed to be that bit more in her favour, she was the one who came up with the cat bollocks, with fil just saying that he thinks shes right and its not fair on the cat to move it so they will buy dh & sil out when the cat dies

Yet despite that fil is still insisting that dh & sil take their names of the deeds asap because he wants it done before the wedding (july), in fact dh thinks it was sometime this week fil said he was going to see his solicitor to get paperwork drawn up

Does DH need to tell him he is taking independent legal advice, before FIL sees his solicitor ?

If FIL hasn't already, ask him to put down in writing what he is asking and offering
If he buys your husband and SIL out of the house then the names can be removed as part of the transaction. No money, no change.
Also make sure you choose several estate agents to value it- you can choose 1, SIL 1 and DF one so that you get a decent valution. I would consider paying for a valuation. It should have been done for probate and the dead of variation - so you should be able to use something like the NAtionwide tool to get a ball park figure...
I feel quite cross for DH and DSIL as I think they are being taken for fools by their own father!

Yes i think they are being taken for fools @Daisymay2 , but given fil's past it don't surprise me, but its not going to work, dh & sil have had a good talk & are both agreed that they are not going to sign anything, and that if fil & smil are that desperate to get their names off the deeds then it will have to be done all officially & as part of a transaction where they buy them out as per a previous plan before smil got the cat involved