Legal salaries

[Aurea]

Hi

I was hoping some Legal professionals could give an idea of what salary to expect after LLB, Diploma, Traineeship/Pupillage, say after 5 and 10 years.

My son is hoping to apply for a LLB, but I don't want him to get into too much debt with difficulty of recouping. He's keen to become a Barrister, or failing that a solicitor. Any other tips would be very welcome. He's hoping to apply for Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Durham and Oxford. He lives in Scotland.

Many thanks

If your son wants to be a "barrister" in Scotland, he would be an advocate snd requires to qualify as a solicitor before he can even apply for "deviling" pupillage . There is plenty of information on the Faculty of Advocates website

key skills he will need if he follows any path into law is to be a self-starter and an excellent researcher who can assimilate and evaluate information. So get him to look into this himself!

I am a solicitor but spend a lot of time doing advocacy (employment tribunals). I would say that he should think hard about what he likes doing and his skills.

If he is the sort of person who can cram large amounts of information into his head and pull it out quickly (like you do when you've left it too late to revise for an exam properly and you have to stay up until 4 in the morning reading the text book cover to cover), you can think on your feet, you have an eye for detail, you are ultra pedantic and can pounce on inconsistencies and you love standing up and speaking in front of people, then you have a good skill set to build upon. If you get the fear when thinking about standing up and speaking in front of groups of others (who know your subject as well as, if not better than you do) then it probably isn't for you.

I have a couple of friends at law school who said they wanted to become barristers and then realised they hated the public speaking element.

His main decision at this point is Scotland or England. Otherwise you're building in additional fees and years. The sensible financial decision is Scotland. Seems like a no brainer to me.

I've only just finished paying off my debt for legal qualifications at 40.
I have two degrees and 10 years corporate experience.
I am not a lawyer.

It's a job. I'm very good at it but had more fun when I was younger (didn't we all).

I work as a solicitor in a seaside town in Cornwall and long ago took the decision that it was lifestyle over salary, which is a bloody good job as I was on about 15k more 25 years ago than I'm on now. I qualified in 1995 and am senior in my firm but still only in the mid 30k range. Salaries are crap round here but I knew that.

I also swapped specialisms after I went back part time following children. I used to be in litigation which was super stressful. I do conveyancing now and have done for many years. It's stressful in a different way, a way I can handle. I wish I'd swapped years ago.

So, he should get as much diverse experience as he can, in my experience the stresses and strains of different heads of law vary wildly.

Good for him for being so focussed at his age. I wish I had been, I'd be an actress now if I'd stuck to my guns...

Actually the tip about public speaking is key. Do Drama! Get on stage! It really helps. DD is all the things user describes!

Let's not be harsh. If the OP is not a lawyer, why would she know about what to expect.

OP - in terms of salary, I'm afraid it is really hugely variable. At even 10 years qualified it could be £30k for family law in the regions versus £300k if s/he has made partner in London.

Best option, is

a) pass her/his exams as best as possible. Law is very snobbish for academic
b) think about the degree. It does not have to be law. Better go for something that interests her/him to get the best possible result which will help (see academic prowess)
c) just try stuff. One of my peers at my City firm was adamant that she was going to qualify into property so she could go back to Manchester for long term. Instead, she fell in love with aviation financing and was last seen in the vicinity of Schipol airport having concalls with Air Traffic Control!

My advice as a parent: support them through exams. Support the choices which will get them the best results. The rest will fall into place

"he wants to be a barrister or failing that a solicitor".. grin erm I would suggest he doesn't say that to any RL solicitors. We're not failed barristers you know, its a different job with different skill sets

Quite. 😬

I am 11 years PQE but didn’t practice as a lawyer for a long time so I expect my salary is shit compared to what it would be if I’d stayed in legal practice (I’ve still been working in law)

Also “barristers” in Scotland are called advocates

I can tell you that even mediocre candidates still find trainships in Scotland

From what I’ve been told by younger graduates it’s still very competitive here.

My H is a criminal barrister and mainly does legal aid defence work. Earned over £180k last year

My DH was a barrister, and failed to get pupil age first time round because his A-levels weren't brilliant. He's got a first from top London uni, and massive top scholarship from inns, but A-levels still mattered.
He spent a year 'resting' while I earned the money.
We had a lot of debt for a while.

After 15 years call he was on about 100k doing civil law in regional bar.
But no pension plan, no paid holidays. And some months no money came in at all.
He stopped a few years ago. He got paid this year 5k that he'd earned & paid tax on 8 years ago.

I'm a lawyer, H is a lawyer, have lots of family / friends who are lawyers.

Bear in mind that salaries in law (in the main) reached a plateau in the crash - where a bonus/ big salary increase was the norm 10 years ago (and some of the posters on here might have left law whilst pay was still rising) salaries haven't really increased in the region's (ime) since - well they're just getting back on track.

I'd say solicitors pay in the main is generally not as high as this thread suggests- solicitors might be £30-40, associates £40-60k, senior associates / junior partners might be on £60/70k, and partners sort of £80k upwards. It also depends what "need" there is when your son qualifies - qualifying in the early 2000s into say commercial property, you were probably paid 30% more than all other specialisms. Its also not great money in comparison to other professions such as accountancy / management in industry.

It is also massively difficult to combine with a family life, certainly in corporate specialisms. A family member (at magic circle firm) has been sat at the airport with her boyfriend & got a call cancelling her leave because a new deal has come in. The firm refunded cost of holiday but sometimes thats not the point.

I know that's probably not an issue for a 16 year old at this stage but in my previous medium sized regional firm of 42 (predominantly male) partners, I think 35 or thereabouts were divorced.

OP I have specialised in criminal (and regulatory) law and did the BVC (now bptc) first before cross qualifying as a solicitor so may be able to cover some of your queries.

Firstly, as other posters have said, it is not a hierarchy of barrister, then solicitor, though that is a common misconception. In crime the distinction tends to be that the solicitor alone will deal with the early stages of a case (police station, magistrates court) and the barrister will deal with any crown court hearings. I'm a solicitor with higher rights of audience which means that I can cover crown court hearings as well and therefore could theoretically cover a case from start to finish.

When I was finishing the BVC (about ten years ago) the amount for criminal pupillage (and I'm in a major city outside of london) ranged from £10-30k but that was guaranteed earnings for the first 6m and most were at the lower end. After that you were on your own, remember that barristers are self-employed.

I worked at a large criminal solicitor firm where the trainee solicitors were paid £16,650 - at that time the minimum. Wages went to £25k on qualification and £28k when you qualified as a duty solicitor.

I've recently gone in a slightly different direction and earn considerably more, but my job is very niche.

The figures above didn't change much in the time I was in the job. Crime doesn't pay, but it's by far the most exciting field in my opinion.