Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

Ex wife stopping me taking kids to my country on holiday

76 replies

Tamoshanter · 17/01/2018 21:34

Hi guys
I would be grateful for advice on how to proceed. My ex wife and I were married and had our divorce wasn't messy and I basically just signed the form saying I agreed to the divorce and the kids would live with her. I am on the birth certificate of our kids and I get them every Friday night. Now the kids are old enough I feel they are ready for me to take them to South Africa to meet my family and ex wife is refusing and says I can't and she thinks if we go to court I am sure to lose. I have always paid my share towards their upkeep.

Legally speaking what can I do and is it possible to get legal aid for this sort of thing and realistically what are my chances in court. The kids are dying to go but she fills their heads with idea that only she has power to decide. Surely this can't be right. She says her worry is I wouldn't bring them back and that's utter nonsense

Please help. Thanks in advance

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 18/01/2018 14:29

Perfume, what are you talking about re pom poms?

cuttingcarbonemissions · 18/01/2018 14:38

South Africa is signed up to the Hague Convention on international child abduction - would that help reassure her?

Are you intending to buy return tickets?

Could you discuss your planned itinerary with her? I would be very worried about my DC travelling in some parts of SA. Less so about other areas.

In the normal course of events if you are settled in UK, are planning a trip in the school holidays, the teens want to go and you have return tickets and health insurance it is unlikely that the courts would refuse permission - unless there are other factors not disclosed here.

AnakinCyberwalker · 18/01/2018 15:02

Not rtft but in case not posted, these are the docs required for SA for your category:

Valid Passport;
ï‚· Valid visa, if required;
ï‚· UBC or Equivalent Document;
ï‚· Court order granting specific parentalresponsibilities and
rights (previously called joint custody) or joint legal
guardianship in respect of the minor; and
ï‚· PCA (where a PCA is presented, certified copies of the
identity documents or passports of the parents or legal
guardians of the minor must be attached.)
ï‚· ; Or where a PCA is unobtainable travelling parent can obtain
a court order granting permission to travel without a second
parent.

Since June 2015, many many people have been caught out on these rules.

RandomMess · 18/01/2018 16:32

I think it's clear in your case it's about control. I personally wouldn't be keen on your chosen destination but as you go back frequently I would agree and just want reassurance you would be super careful about where you went etc.

I think court would support you hands down if for some bizarre reason they didn't I would bide your time until youngest is 18.

bibliomania · 18/01/2018 17:02

Agree with Random that I'd wait it out till they're 18 (and I said the same thing on here to a mother asking the same question). It's not worth the drama for the sake of 5 years.

BubblesBuddy · 19/01/2018 01:09

Why do people think you cannot be safe in SA? It is absolutely ludicrous to think it is universally unsafe. Why 18? Mine went on their own, on the flight, at 13 and stayed for 3 months. They were very well cared for but you stick to where you are safe, and tourist areas are safe, as are many residential neighbourhoods the cities. You just do not wander around areas you don’t know, and the teens should have adult supervision. I find this objection to SA bewildering. Presumably posters have not actually been there?

RandomMess · 19/01/2018 06:50

The waiting until they are 18 is about not needing the other parents permission anymore!!!

There are plenty of countries I personally wouldn't be happy about my DC visiting without me.

MrsBertBibby · 19/01/2018 06:57

Presumably, then, you'd take care not to reproduce with someone from such a place?

Kids have a right to experience both parent's heritage.

cod · 19/01/2018 07:01

Go to court. You don’t need s solicitor. This very common. Just lodge a specific issue application in the family court.

MaybeDoctor · 19/01/2018 07:18

I think the fear of your children being a long way away is an understandable, instinctive fear for a parent. It can’t be overcome by logic, but by reassurance.

Personally, any kind of driving itinerary would really worry me in SA - I know of a number of road deaths in SA amongst my wider friends/acquaintances.

Why not have some of your SA family visit here as an interim measure?

QuitMoaning · 19/01/2018 07:19

Why can't she go? I wouldn't ever want to be a long flight away from my children.
Nobody does really but that is not in the best interests of the children. My ex lives in Australia now and my son has been several times starting when he was 15 when he flew on his own to literally the other side of the world. I sobbed and sobbed but I knew it was right for him. I hated it but it isn’t about me.
How can I deny my son that opportunity? He is safe, he is with his father (we do not get on at all but that shouldn’t affect my son in any way)

greenberet · 19/01/2018 07:48

I'm the mother referred to on here - I want to take my kids (16 yr old twins) to SA for a holiday. My DM was from Cape Town - I want to take her ashes back and for my kids to learn about their heritage - this is specifically important to me and them possibly sometime in the future. My DF would never go despite my DM asking many times.

My X has refused permission on the grounds it is 'unsafe' that he thinks it is too far for kids to be travelling and that I am unfit to take them due to my MH - I will be with another adult.

Personally this is out of spite - out of control out of whatever bollocks he can justify - I had Breast cancer 3 years ago - I was lucky - I am still under yearly checks - this is something I want to do for my Dm, my kids and myself and the pillock refuses.

Just another way of beating me with a metaphorical stick

DancesWithOtters · 19/01/2018 07:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RandomMess · 19/01/2018 08:12

If you read my posts you can see I said I would agree to it but I wouldn't be happy! I certainly wouldn't be selfish enough to make my ex go to court for something they would be awarded.

Only time I would fight it would be if I believed their was abduction risk regardless of Hague convention because it is usually a very expensive and long drawn out battle.

There are certainly some cultures I would avoid marrying in to, actually there are relationships I've walked away from because of what partners family are like nothing to do with culture of birth!

MaybeDoctor · 19/01/2018 11:03

In my view, the best solution would be to invite your children's mother to come to South Africa too - even if it is just for part of the trip.

You don't have to share accommodation, sit next to her on the plane, or do everything together, but if she is there in the country then she is a) much more likely to agree and b) some of her fears will be alleviated.

GummyGoddess · 19/01/2018 13:56

Mediation and then court sounds like the best plan. It would be unfortunate for your parenting relationship if she could not compromise but if your children are teenagers then you don't have much longer left where you will need to be in contact with each other.

CharizMa · 19/01/2018 17:13

That's a really good idea to inv8te her to join you for the last 5 days or something and all fly back together. V civilised

Original poster
Tamoshanter · 20/01/2018 06:12

I genuinely appreciate all the input and different views, I am going to push for mediation and if that fails redress through the courts is my only option . I feel its my right as a father. Waiting til! Kids are 18 is all well and good but my parents are in their 60s approaching 70 who is it to say they will be here in 5 years time. I am not asking for something unreasonable. If we were together she would have no problem with kids going with me but she is now exercising her "power" to punish me.

OP posts:
Collaborate · 20/01/2018 07:57

I just want to correct something mentioned upthread. The SA authorities, if they are interested at all, will simply want to know that you have legal authority to take the children abroad. That means the consent of the mother OR a court order. If there is an order the mother's lack of consent is irrelevant.

RandomMess · 20/01/2018 08:26

All the best @Tamoshanter I do hope she agrees once she realises you are prepared to take her to court as she is being completely unreasonable. I can't see any grounds for the court not siding with your request.

howrudeforme · 20/01/2018 08:31

On the one hand what a brilliant opportunity for the kids and so long overdue to meet their family.

But a mum I’d hate my kids to be that far away even though they are teenagers.

I allowed exH to take ds to his (EU) country alone from about 8. We’d been there regularly as a family and although the relationship became abusive I felt I couldn’t cut ds off from half his family. X had made threats to take ds and not return years back. That fear stays with you. I was miserable and fearful. But I ensured I could speak to ds every day.

First two times I joined them for the last three days primarily to accompany ds back.

Ds older now and spent four weeks there this summer. he hated it and in future it will two weeks only.

There needs to be trust-you both have to work hard at this. My x had made threats when we were married - you have no idea how crazy making that is to the threatened parent.

If not you carry on as you are and your kids will continue to miss out.

Do your kids have passports? Have they ever travelled?

CheshireSplat · 20/01/2018 08:38

I find this thread really depressing. What a fantastic opportunity for the children to go to a beautiful country and meet family.

Original poster
Tamoshanter · 20/01/2018 10:23

@ howrudeforme
At yes the kids have passport s and have been abroad. She took them to mainland Europe in the summer and never asked my permission though she did tell me. I saw non reason to refuse so it wasn't an issue but when its my turn it becomes an issue

OP posts:
gingermary · 20/01/2018 10:29

Slightly off topic but if you do manage to resolve the situation and travel to SA, new rules in SA mean you must travel with the children's birth certificates and signed affadavit from other parent giving permission to travel.

greenberet · 20/01/2018 16:58

And it needs to be full birth certificate not the abridged version - trust needs to work both ways though howrude - as far as I am aware SA is the only country that has these strict requirements.

In my case too it is all about control

Swipe left for the next trending thread