Ex wife stopping me taking kids to my country on holiday

[Tamoshanter]

Hi guys
I would be grateful for advice on how to proceed. My ex wife and I were married and had our divorce wasn't messy and I basically just signed the form saying I agreed to the divorce and the kids would live with her. I am on the birth certificate of our kids and I get them every Friday night. Now the kids are old enough I feel they are ready for me to take them to South Africa to meet my family and ex wife is refusing and says I can't and she thinks if we go to court I am sure to lose. I have always paid my share towards their upkeep.

Legally speaking what can I do and is it possible to get legal aid for this sort of thing and realistically what are my chances in court. The kids are dying to go but she fills their heads with idea that only she has power to decide. Surely this can't be right. She says her worry is I wouldn't bring them back and that's utter nonsense

Please help. Thanks in advance

Can't advise on procedure as I'm an English solicitor, not Scottish, but I would invite her to mediation straight away, and get some pointers on how to apply to court straight away. Her having dodgy exes is nothing to do with whether you can take the kids abroad or not.

ou looked after your child’s step sibling whilst their mother was in hospital having a baby and you see that as a favour

half sibling, not step. Of course it's a favour!

I wouldn't want anyone taking my kids to SA either

He's their father. Go to court, OP, you'll get it.

cantucciniamaretto that's very encouraging. All I want is for my kids to connect with that side of the family. Sure!y its not too much to ask

I live in Scotland and am about to apply for a specific issue order so I can take my son to Spain for 3 months (dad agreed at first but is now saying no after an argument) my solicitor says I should get legal aid. She has said there is no guarantee the order will be granted but the court will look at what is in the best interests of the child. If you can show that you have a good plan in place for where you’re going to stay, you have the finances and that you will definitely return you should be able to go as a holiday will always be seen as a positive experience for children, mine is a little complicated as it’s for 3 months but if it’s just for a couple of weeks the court should grant it. However try and get mediation first as if it does need to go to court you can show that you have made every attempt to sort it out with your ex wife

Aw90. Thanks for the advice. I will try mediation first

IIRC, South Africa specifically requires a permission letter from the other parent if one parent is travelling alone with kids, even if parents are still together.

www.sapeople.com/2015/06/16/guide-travel-kids-children-south-africa/

So if she is not prepared to provide this, you may have to look at other legal options.

South Africa is safe for teens if you are in a safe area and the teens are well drilled on where to go and where not to go. Mine, at age 13, boarded there for three months with no problems at all. Neither did I see them for these three months. South Africa is not a backward lawless country with no rules! It is a fantastic opportunity to see relatives.

If children eventually grow up preferring one country over another, that will be up to them. However, vast numbers of South Africans are in London so SA is not to everyone's taste and I can see why not. There are real stresses and strains to everyday life, but for a short holiday it is amazing.

Visiting relatives for a short period of time (2-3 weeks), so as not to miss school, should be allowed by the courts, but obviously try mediation first. I think you should make it clear to your ex where you will be staying, what rules you expect the children to abide by, what any child care arrangements will be with relatives they do not know, where you will be going and what you will be doing. Give her an itinerary and contact numbers.

I believe SA has very strict requirements for single parent entry into the country so make sure you know what is required and obviously book a return ticket!

(I do think 3 months is too long and breaks up child care patterns, parental visits and obviously means missing school or nursery if children are older. It is detrimental to normal routines so I think UK holiday periods only is best).

The fact that you two have actually had to reassure each other that no kidnapping will take place is a terrible start. I mean, how are you meant to evolve from the 'Honey, I promise not to kidnap the kids' discussion? Through trust, is the answer, of which there is none.

I agree with other posters. You've got to start from ground zero and build trust through mediation.
This isn't about your admirable actions when you morphed in to Super Dad and it's not about what she's not worth in your eyes. She made bad decisions with former partners she's no longer with. Are you going to constantly hold that over her? Are you constantly going to play the 'I looked after your kids when you were in hospital' card as a means of making her feel badly during a time of vulnerability? If she had cancer and had to go through chemo and the rest, would you use that as leverage too?
In order to make ANYTHING work, you have got to regain trust without making her live out her 'sins'. Yes, you've done good, OP and your actions in the past sound magnanimous, but those actions lose value the minute you use them as a means to make her look bad, which is what you've done.

How old are the kids? You really ought to answer this question.
How about mediation? Thoughts on this?

If she disagrees, the straight up answer is, you have to apply to the courts.
My ex has taken our son abroad numerous times. I said 'no' to a 3 month stay in the Thar Desert between India and Pakistan in August for obvious reasons. This escalated and ultimately, DS did not go. Ex is not from that region and he has no family or relations there.

Your case is totally different and a trip to SA with their SAfrican dad is not unreasonable in the least, so long as it's during the school hols and you can present departure/return dates/flight details, addresses and contact numbers, plus copies of all of your passports to the family court. You can self-represent. I always did and it didn't hinder me in the least.Know the law, prepare to compromise, be fair, and you will get what you want and what is fair for everyone.

How old are the kids? You really ought to answer this question

He said they are teenagers. You really ought to read.

@cantucciniamaretto
They are 13 and 15

@ TheVanguardSix
I never claimed to be superdad and if you read again I never mentioned that story rill someone asked of there was a back story and that's when I brought it up and said if anything the back story was me helping her out. I haven't held her p9r choice of partners against her in any not my posts

Following this with interest as my ex husband is being reticent to sign to allow me to take my daughter to South Africa. It’s just a power thing for him, we’re on relatively good terms and he has previously said he’d sign it but now being difficult.

BubblesBuddy
Thanks. Sometimes people speak out of ignorance about south Africa and its great to have input from someone who has first hand experience of the place The media distorts facts and paints a horrible picture of it and we saw this before world cup 2010 where doom mongers in the press wrote articles envisioning world cup fans being raped murdered and robbed. None of this happened at all. Crime is in the poor areas and we will be in a very safe area of Joburg. So their safety is not even an issue.

I wasn't asking Op

gunsandbanjos
That's what I'm trying to explain. Some ex partners do it purely as a power thing. I was in Jo'burg in September/October and had no issues whatsoever with safety and surely no father would risk his children's lives knowingly

cantucciniamaretto
My apologies sorry I misread your post

Forgive my ignorance but even if the UK court says yes, is that not a moot point if SA requires both parents to agree!

IWannaSeeHowItEnds
I have already checked on SA side and their words were in practice they don't really check unless the kids are very young and its at discretion of immigration officer and if they do raise it a court/legal document will suffice

'I have already checked on SA side and their words were in practice they don't really check unless the kids are very young and its at discretion of immigration officer and if they do raise it a court/legal document will suffice'

I wouldn't rely on this! A friend's ex h took their 3 teens there last year (with her full agreement, they went for a holiday) and he needed to have permission from their mother as well as legal documents. They were very strict about this.

@expatinscotland
Noted and thank you for the advice. I will push for mediation and then court as a last resort

Funny how when a father is putting obstacles in a mother's way the pompoms come out....but not the other way round.
At 13 and 15 the courts would very definitely take their wishes into consideration, OP and if your ex was preventing them from travelling with you, she would quite rightly be expected to prove a "clear and present" fear that you intend to abduct.
In all likelihood your life in Scotland would be enough to demonstrate you are not a threat and she'd have to abide by that.
Good luck!

You may find, however, that the airline checks - as it can cause problems for them if they deliver passengers to a country which then will not accept them!