Being accused of disability discrimination

[MyCatWontShutUp]

Hi looking for guidance really. Yes it's a long post but trying not to drip feed.

I run a hobby group. Nothing fancy. Once a month meetups to chat, do our hobby and eat cake. We are in Scotland.
‭
I chose my venue (which costs a little more than other ones) and pay for the use of the venue as I need it. It's a local authority venue and has disabled access, bathrooms and good lighting.

I started the group about a year ago. Started with 10 people. Now up to 40.

We ask for a fee every month a nominal amount to cover hall costs, tea coffee and cake is provided.

The group when set up agreed we wanted over 16 only. Lots of mums come who need a break from children. Also our hobby has a number of tools that can be dangerous as sharp, hot etc. Conversation can occasionally get a bit risqué and it's nice to have a break from my own children too. It's peaceful and I think this is why it's successful.

Recently a woman approached me about allowing her 13 year old to come as she is her carer. But I said unfortunately the group is over 16 due to insurance and health and safety. It's in the groups constitution etc.

I'm now being accused of disability discrimination and I'm horrified. I have stated they can attend with a carer over the age of 16 but that's not made them happy.

I have been told they will be lodging a complaint with the council.

I have already done my best to be inclusive to everyone. I even made sure cake was available for lots of dietary needs too.

Eeek.

I wouldn't worry as 16+ is for insurance purposes. You're not saying the daughter can't come because she's disabled, you're saying she can't come because she's under 16, as per group constitution. You have offered an alternative adjustment which has not been accepted.

There is no disability discrimination in play here - I don't think the council would do more than ask you a couple of questions then drop this for the vexatious nonsense it is.

Get some advice.

Honestly I do feel sorry for you, it sounds like you are doing a great thing running your club and someone has to make something out of nothing.

What is this woman planning on doing about her claim of disability discrimination?

Don't worry! You haven't done anything wrong!!

Weezol - I think the mum is disabled and wants to come and the 13 year old is the carer, to facilitate mum coming.

Yes sorry. The mum is disabled and states her child is her carer.

Your citizens advice bureaux might be able to help with advice.

So far she has tried to get me to change it by posting about it on social media. Others who run the same type of group state over 16. One stated over 18. Two said a case by case basis, and a further one stated that the last time she let an under 16 in it was a nightmare.

I have been told that I need to allow the child in as she's a registered carer and is tasked with carrying out personal care.

I'm not prepared to carry out personal care on my hobby day. I'm there to relax. I do work with personal care in my job.

I just don't want young folk in. But worried I'm being unreasonable right enough

I think the same as you - that's why I mentioned an alternative adjustment which OP offered (in compliance with DDA) and the adjustment was rejected.

The mum's decision not to compromise on this is her choice, but the consequence is that she cannot join the group.

Thanks so much! I didn't think anyone would reply and I'm grateful that you did.

I think I have made as many reasonable adjustments as I possibly can. It has taken a lot of fine tuning to get the group to work for as many people as I can.

But I did point out that I can only do my best and sometimes things don't work for everyone.

Surely if the insurance only covers over 16s, the child wouldn't be insured- carer or not.

I can't remember the exact terminology now but I do remember reading something about even if a disabled person needs accommodation to be made, there is no disability discrimination if the accommodation would change the overall nature of the private club.

These are not the tight words bug it is something like that.

So in your case ADULT CRAFT CLUB, a 13 year old would change the nature of the club therefore not discrimination.

I wish I could remember exactly what the law is but it escapes me now.

Also only certain conditions automatically count as disabilities under the Equality Act 2010 and some conditions may count or not count.

Seriously get some proper advice, please don't let this nonsense ruin your hobby club.

Sorry weezol I didn't read it like that.

I think instinctively op you are right, but I can't find anything in the Equality Act guidance specific enough (not sure if that applies to Scotland anyway).

Persian the EA says indirect discrimination is justified in that circumstance.

She can complain but it won't change much for her. It's the same as trying to get into an over 18s nightclub or an over 50s cruise and saying her 13 year old should be allowed to come with her.

How does she manage when the 13 year old is at school? She must have alternative support options.

Weezol
Sorry to be picky but the DDA 1995 has been repealed everywhere except NI

Equality Act 2010 is the current relevant law

Noeuf
Are you saying that the phrase i was thinking of was "indirect discrimination"?

No worries,I am disabled and had serious problems getting DDA act adjustments for myself with a past employer, so much so that it could be my specialist subject on Master Mind!

MyCat She sounds like she's trying a little light bullying to make you change your mind. There's a long standing trope that people with disabilities are all brave and lovely, but being a bit of a plank is not the exclusive preserve of the able bodied.

There are actually 2 separate woman complaining. Both are friends. Both have 13 year old carers.

One is a wheelchair user and the other states anxiety and depression.

The wheelchair user asked me to change the groups remit to accommodate her carer.

The anxiety and depression lady is the one threatening to lodge formal complaints. She's someone I have known for several years and doesn't like no as an option. It's very vocal about her rights.

Sorry I'm aware that's a drip feed.

Anxiety and depression lady was out in town and was not with any carer. Not even her 13 year old who would have been at school. Also works part time and I know doesn't use a support worker.

Wheelchair user lady told me her child is a registered carer and told me I need to make adjustments for her.

At a recent event I ran, she attended with her husband who I assume was her carer.

I have a large proportion of members who have a variety of disability and additional needs. Various mental health and other conditions too. So I know that I must be doing something right if the numbers are growing month on month.

You’ve offered reasonable adjustment under the EA. She’s presumably got another carer when her daughter is at school, so it’s not a case of only the daughter being able to carry out a task. Stick to your guns. You’re in the right here. You might want to contact the Govan Law Society for wording. They’re shit hot at EA.

Apologies. EA act it is. I really am bad a getting 'new' things to stick in my mind.

Thanks soooo much. I will contact them tomorrow. Assuming that they aren't under a tonne of snow.

I'm a student nurse and previously worked with disability discrimination in my old job. However I'm absolutely overthinking this as I'm pretty exhausted.

I can see my group going downhill if I'm forced to allow under 16 and I'm proud of what I have built.

DO NOT ALLOW THIS NONSENSE TO RUIN YOUR CLUB

I am shouting on purpose so that you hear me

I don't see how it's disability discrimination. You're not saying the lady can't attend. You're saying she can't bring a child with her as it's against your group's rules and the child wouldn't be insured. You aren't required to accommodate every disabled person - only to make "reasonable adjustments" for them to attend. Changing your permitted age range and insurance policy is not a reasonable adjustment. The lady is just kicking up a fuss and making empty threats in the hope you'll back down.

I'm really curious as to how these women manage when their 13 year old carers are at school.

I also didn't think it was feasible or even legal for school aged children to be registered carers! How...are they "evenings & weekends registered only" is that even possible?

Either way if your Insurance covers you for 18 + activity sessions then amongst all the other advice and reasons on thread, they really can't get past that. As you know you have to be meticulous re insurance.

@PersianCatLady . I hear you!!! Loud n clear.