Lost custody, advice prior to final hearing gratefully received

[Glowbug59]

Hi, I’m hoping someone has some experience or advice. A family member (Jane, a nurse) has lost custody of her DSs (4&6) to her husband. Background is: mental abuse from husband, MH issues leading Jane to go missing and several suicide attempts. Recent MH assessments have shown this all stemmed from the abuse in the home.

Husband, who was still in family home, picked up the boys from school in September and had them since, after going to the family court with a c100 without notice.

Two court hearings so far and custody has remained with husband. Magistrates seeming uninterested. The husband is hugely manipulative and seems to have social services very much onside. His aim seems to be to ruin Jane rather than any particular care for the boys. The boys views and wishes not being heard. Solicitors always stunned by events and Jane now only has paid visits to contact centres once a week for 2hours (£40 an hour)

Following the split they had a physical row and Jane has been found guilty of assaulting him, so appeal pending, possibly end of her nursing career. Final hearing for the children is on 17th January.

From reading other posts on here, it seems you have to very much fight your own corner with SS off side and busy solicitors. Jane is trying to settle out of court with a proposal sent to her husband via the solicitors in hope to move contact on with her children as she is increasingly worried about their welfare. We are pretty confident he will be awarded full custody looking at the two previous court hearings. Does anyone have any advice to what she should do with regard improving her position for the final hearing?

Thanks for reading.

has she gone to Women's Aid or one of those organisations? Seems like she needs professional help

without wanting to sound too negative, something very similar happened to a friend of mine and she has not managed to get her child back :( years down the line. So she needs to be prepared for a long fight and legal aid probably won't cover it.

Does she have the best legal representation that she can get? As I can see that as being her only option at this point. This is a legal rather than a moral issue, sadly. I can't imagine that the suicide attempts have helped her cause regardless of the reason behind them.

Following the split they had a physical row and Jane has been found guilty of assaulting him

Tbf that won't help her case along with the suicide attempts.

I think she will have a hell of a fight on her hands.

She needs to stress the importance for the children in maintaining contact with her. And then be in their lives as much as possible. As they get older they may well want to spend more time with her and their wishes are more likely to be taken into consideration.

Thanks for replies. She’s not helped herself certainly, it just seems to have spiralled and the boys seem so unhappy.

I’ve suggested outside help like Mothers without children. I’m not sure if she’s contacted them or if there’s not much they can do given the background.

She does have representation paid for by other family. She seems to go into these hearings quite positive, then come out with less contact.

Thanks singsam, sorry to hear about your friend.

Jane is not the primary carer.
Jane has physically abused her husband.
Jane potentially is about to be sacked from her job due to a criminal conviction for assault.
Jane has attempted suicide on multiple occasions.

Jane is not regaining custody of her children.

Yes, she has more or less come to terms with not regaining full custody, particularly since the criminal conviction.

She is hoping for more than these two miserable contact sessions a week, which being out of work, she can’t afford. The eldest child seems so shut down.

She’s absolutely played into his hands though. If they drive past each other in the street he calls the police to say she looked at him funny. Requested a screen in the criminal court because he was afraid of her.

It's doubtful if Jane could really cope with full custody of these two young children going off what you have written about her circumstances. Suicide attempts, criminal conviction for violence. It doesn't look very good. I suppose you just have to leave it up to the authorities and hope they know what they're doing.

She needs support to let things go for now and focus on improving her mental health. She needs a counsellor or therapist who understands these issues because despite what some here would like to believe, it is not as simple as her being in the wrong and having done wrong. Too many men play this game when relationships break down and you are right, it is sod all to do with caring about the children and everything to do with spite, control and anger. Tussles of a physical nature are common during the separation process and occur where no physical abuse has occurred before. Unfortunately, it can be used against you (spent a night in a police cell myself) with career damaging consequences as your friend is experiencing. She really needs to try and find some peace for herself and start thinking long term because short term it sounds like the battle is already lost. Getting the best possible deal she can for contact now and then focus on getting herself mentally well. There should be counsellors at Relate with experience but otherwise google will help find someone who understands these circumstances - it is unusual but by no means unique. Match Mothers may also be able to offer support without the judgement you are getting here.

I hate to be the barer of bad news but is what your family member is telling you the full truth?

SS and the courts rarely switch custody of the children without VERY good cause.

My advice would be to first get her mental health too a better place work on herself so she can better her chances of having more time with her children.

Because as it stands she appears to be very unstable and the courts concour with SS that their dad is better able to look after the children right now and even in the OP it doesn't sound good assault , suicide attempts, unemployed (possibly as assault normally disbars you from being a nurse) so possible uncertainty with housing.

My only legal advice would be to contact woman's aid or others charities that have been suggested and to work on her issues because right now chances are near enough certian he will be awarded RP status so be prepared for the long game of first getting herself in a good place working through her problems and slowly building up contact and re-evaulate later on when she has a chance.

I wish you luck.

Hi, ohreally thanks for your input, that’s some really helpful insight. I’d heard of Match but don’t know if she contacted them. I’m sorry to read you had your own situation. Hope you’re all good now.

Yes worrid only know our side of the family’s views. I’d be interested to hear his! It was like one situation, bad choice, bad decision on top of another for quite some time and we’ve ended up here. Certainly she’d had a lot of support with the boys from her parents. And now they rarely see the boys too which is very sad.

Thank you, the general consensus I’d say is she does indeed need to work on herself and work on her long term position.

This has been quite the eye opener Thanks for your time

Great advice from @oh really upthread. I too am a mother who has a conviction and lost contact with my children.

Jane will be in a terrible state and as oh really states, needs to step away from this now. Match Mothers will give her the handhold she needs here. Not dissimilar to my own case way back in 2004. I had no support until I found Match.

There's no mother like a bad mother in the eyes of courts and sadly, something that does not sit on the radar of feminists.

Jane must be in turmoil and this alienation of her children from her will eat it's way through her. But, the best she can do here is put the oxygen mask on herself, repair and heal so her children do have their mother as a healthy, balanced parent.

Wish Jane luck from me.

This might seem like an odd suggestion but I would suggestion that you check out a couple of other forums that might be able to help you better. "DadInfo" and "Seperated Dads" (google them).

As the names indicate, they're normally used by Fathers not Mothers but Jane's situation is something much more commonly experienced by fathers than mothers and there are people on those forums who can give really good advice for people in her situation and are in/have been in the same boat.

If you're uncomfortable posting for"Jane" then just reverse the genders and post for "John" - although you needn't worry as there are (a few) women who post there.

I hope Jane recovers soon.

Mc I passed your suggestion and wishes on, she appreciated them very much. Wishing you all the best too.

Thank you 2boys I will have a Google, I hadn’t thought of looking at it from that point of view.

How are things Glowbug?

Sorry greenlanes, I didn’t see your last post. I’ve had a name change too.

I’m sorry to say it didn’t end well. ‘Jane’ had a significant suicide attempt, was in hospital, then moved to mental health hospital, under 24hr watch. And then she was released. I’ve heard others say that the hospital should have done checks or visits but I don’t think this happened and she passed away last weekend.

With her children, there had been more relaxed contact, they were no longer on the child protection register. I guess the future just looked too bleak and hopeless 😢

I'm so sorry, OP. For Jane and her children. This is devastating. I know only too well the brokenness of my own life that truly will never be healed.

How upsetting for her boys. I hope they'll find some peace in the future. It's evident from what you have said that their mother was deeply troubled.

I hope you find a way forward with your family.

That's tragic, OP. Really heartbreaking.

Those poor boys.

Yes it was quite a build up over time. I wonder if it was maybe triggered by something post natal or before that even.

I just keeping thinking Is that it? All that and we end up here? I thought there would maybe be some relief that she’s ‘at peace’ but I just can’t get my head around it.

I pray the boys will get the support they need. Thanks again for the kind messages.

Saymaname & Jane
You clearly were a great support for her. Sadly this goes on all the time. Every day courts, ss, cs are doing this and not seeing that MH difficulties drift away when ex does.
Ex knows the torture he is causing and there is supposed to be a limit out on how long this can go on. Sadly, for many women its a case of 'there but for the grace of God/good fortune/whatever, go I'
They only do it to end the woman.
You did what you could. You asked for help, and he sits smug, he got his wish, he killed her.
I am sorry for your loss. Sometimes theres just too much to fight. Is there any recourse in a case such as this?

I'm so sorry I posted the above in.the wrong place and can't seem to delete

That's so *Banana. He will have his work cut out to take you to court to overturn this if you have evidence. Sadly, courts seem to take the abusive twunts wants over those of the survivor all too frequently, without any recognition of the typical abusers tactics of simply wanting to cause max negative impact to the mother. There is protection legally to prevent 'further harm' to mother, after being threatened with that and the harm it does.
Report your post and ask if MNHQ can move it?

So sorry to read this