Rehousing both parents after divorce

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Sorry for the big long post but I am hoping some people will be willing to read my story .
I am currently separating from my wife after 8 years of marriage. We have two children aged 4 and 6. We are both still in the family home. She hasnt worked since having children and I earn about £5k a month. She used to earn around 30k. The house is the only asset (joint mortgage) apart from small pensions, hers is larger. The issue with separation/divorce is what happens in regard to housing? She wants to stay in the family home and have me move out as soon as possible. She has no interest in working and wants to try and survive on benefits and perhaps from fostering but that brings in little. This means she would not be able to afford to take over the mortgage, get one of her own or buy me out. This leaves me stuck on the mortgage and without a deposit unable to get my own mortgage and forced into rental. The issue I have with it we have a 4 bed house in an expensive area. For our children I would argue only a 3 bed is needed and I would also desire to have a 3 bed with a garden so I can provide a home away from home when I have the children. I don't want to take them to a small rented flat. The options are if she doesn't work I am stuck with that situation. But if she did work she would be able to get a mortgage by selling the family home and downsizing to free up the equity (about £200k-250k) for both of us to be able to rehouse. I am happy for her to have the greater share as she will be the main carer so split about 60/40. All I want is around £60k for a deposit. A decent 3 bed in a cheaper area but not too far away would be around £200k-£250k. She would have around £150k or more deposit so can have a smaller mortgage. If we say she can earn £25k she could get about £80k mortgage. She can also have the house contents like furniture etc. and I start again. I think I am being fair. I wish we could keep the home but realistically that means I can't rehouse. My fear is having a 'mesher order' where the court allows her to have the house until the youngest child is 18. That leaves me unable to get my own mortgage or house for 14 years! Anyone been in a similar situation? It really comes down to her working or not working? I feel she is using fostering partly to argue she needs a 4 bed house and benefits to keep her from getting her own mortgage. She argues she doesn't want to work as she wants to be home for the children and moving house will be disruptive to the children. Unfortunately I feel they will be used against me. Both are now in full time school. How will the court look at this if it got to that? It would be easy for them to apply a mesher but would they take into account that I need somewhere to have the children based on she is able to work and look at her 'earning capacity' instead? I wouldn't expect her to be able to earn what she did previously and I am also happy for a period of 'retraining' to get her back into work with me still paying for everything. She seems to be unrealistic that she wants the current standard of living to continue and not work and stand on her own two feet! It seems very wrong that it could very easily end up me walking out the door with nothing but my wardrobe. I would argue she is denying me a good relationship with my children. I want to be involved properly in their lives, take them to school, hang out at home etc. Not just the weekend Dad that takes them on trips. The court will either rule keep them in the house as it would disrupt the children and she can't afford anything else. Otherwise can she be 'forced' back into work as there is no reason she can't and it is now seen as beneficial to the children to have good contact with both parents? I have sought legal advice and my solicitor has advised that what she wants is unfair but hers had advised that the court will just let her stay as she can't afford it? To add of course I will be paying maintenance to her. Just to add to the mix, there is also a chance if I change jobs my salary would likely decrease by at least half and we would be unable to sustain the current high mortgage. Would like to hear of your experiences and thoughts as even the solicitors don't seem so sure!

1. I don't think she will immedfiately be forced to work sadly. I would never marry someone who would not always agree to work full time. We both worked full time and I bought my husband out of the house on our divorce. Next time only date women who earn more and who will never go part time even when babies come even if that makes life harder for you day to day. It never pays to let a woman give up work or go part time. Anyway you are where you are.

1. The children are at school so I don't see why the 2 of you cannot work full time and pay someone like I had do to get them to school and collect them and for childcare during holidays like two full time working couples However she probably will say it's hard to get jobs. The court might award her spousal maintenance in addition to child maintenance until she can retrain or say for 5 years. Does she had a parent who could help out perhaps with inheritance coming later coming now instead who could go on the mortgage as coguarantor to get you off it and to release £60k equity from the house for you so you can start again and buy your own house? That would be one obvious solution. She would however have to be able to afford the mortgage on her benefits (i.e. your and my tax payers' money!) and any fostering earnings.I thought fostering was qutie well paid actually - £18k per child or something ridiculously high.

A Mesher order is pretty unlikely with children that young, and long-term spousal maintenance is pretty unlikely too. Certainly possible that there could be some short term spousal maintenance to give her a year or two to get on her feet.

No-one can really advise you other than solicitors who know your particular circumstances but her predicament - I.e. not having worked for 6 years was presumably a joint decision when she have up work. What you're suggesting now is that she finds a job that pay a £25k when she's been out of work for a considerable time, fits in with school drop off and collection plus allows 12+ weeks off to cover school holidays plus extras for sickness etc, or leaves her with £25k once she's paid her half of the childcare. And that's not to mention the potential upheaval for the children who have presumably been used to having their mum their 24/7.

I understand where you are coming from but you can also appreciate that it's not simply a case of "isn't it fair that she works?". Yes in an ideal world but it's never straight forward and quite frankly you made the decision jointly for her to give up work and the goalposts are moving now you're divorcing. Not many couples can find the lifestyle they had jointly post divorce. However the difficulty is that without you both trying to see the others perspective and potentially compromise, a very large chunk of that equity will disappear in solicitor fees.

Sorry for all the typos!!

Thanks for the responses so far. Perhaps I used the wrong word in suggesting to 'force' her to work. I don't plan to walk away and abandon her. I will of course be paying child maintenance but also spousal maintenance (while giving her the bigger financial share of assets) to allow her to get back on her feet. I don't have an issue with that as I would expect that retraining and getting qualified again will be required. If I managed to walk away with some equity I wouldn't even mind paying more maintenance. But if I had nothing I feel I would want to pay less so I can try and recover. I have thought perhaps someone from her family could step in but no one so far has. I used a £25 salary just as an example. I am trying to work some numbers to allow us both to be rehoused. I don't even expect her to work full time, if she was able to go part time and she could get working tax credits as well as child credits. It could all add up to make her a stronger candidate for a mortgage? It's a fine balancing act to try and get our own mortgages. Surely I can't be expected to battle for 14 years? If the children were in the teens then to rent for a year or so wouldn't be a problem. The other thing that worries me is if the children have to move house (at some stage) surely it is better at a young age (it would almost be an adventure for them really) than later after many years growing up in the house? Wouldn't working at some point set the right example to the children? I feel I am trying to work a solution for everyone while she just says I won't work and I want the house and me to pay for it all and happy for me to leave with nothing? Is there any argument for when I have the children with regards to accommodation? I would like them to have their own bedrooms and a garden like they would at home but that wouldn't be affordable to rent that size. I have flexible work so could have them weekdays during certain periods and do pickup and drop off which is important to me to remain involved with day to say when possible. But not from a flat....

From what I understand the good money in fostering is via agencies and taking on older children. She wants only 0-2 years from local authority so not a huge earner. They say to never have children older than your own. I can't say I approve of introducing another child into the home while going through a divorce. I am not sure she would even get approved. If not, then surely a 'plan b' is needed?

I was told that the court would certainly look at both parents being housed in order to look after the children, and that my part-time X would have to work more in order to support himself now that the kids are in school full time. Your problem is that it could take 25k in legal bills to get there which is a huge chunk out of the marital asset pot. Mediation could help you both come to an agreement without incurring a huge bill, it's overseen by a solicitor who will guide you both down the route that is best for the children.

Yes my I agree and am very concerned over the potential legal costs. Of course both of our solicitors are saying we can both win. There's a surprise! We have agreed mediation as the next step but I feel she has zero compromise. So I am not sure mediation will achieve anything. I know they have to be mutual and can't really suggest anything in particular for either party so not sure what it can do? However I have heard people that highly praise mediation so one can only hope. Plasticcheese - sounds like you had similar? Where did you end up? At least your ex was working part-time already! Obviously I want to avoid court if all possible but until she becomes realistic and willing to compromise somehow I feel it will end up going that way. Perhaps the financial shock of it going legal could be a wake up call for her as I don't know how she would fund it apart from family helping out.

Just one point OP. Where is your compromise? I think it may be helpful for you to specifically set out how you are childcare working before you start down this route or speak to a number of recruitment agencies to discuss how many school hour/ term time jobs come up and when they do, how many people apply for them. If the only way you can get what you want is to make your wife go out to work, you need to look objectively at how feasible that is. Like I said above, are you prepared (can you) take 6 weeks leave every year to cover your share of school holidays? If not, are you prepared to pay for / happy for your children to go to holiday club (can you get places / do their friends go etc).

I think you have over simplified the situation by saying it all hangs on your wife's willingness to work so she can get a mortgage.

I think you should take a mental leap into being her and try to find a job that will allow so much holiday and be available for pick ups and school drop offs.

As nowhere in your posts do you talk about YOUR work and how available you are to
take your children to and from school and how much holiday you have to use ALL of it for school holidays.

It's incredibly difficult to find a part time job that will do all of the above - you are going to have to put them in school holiday clubs at great cost at some point as even combined you don't have enough holiday between you.

Spend a morning looking for jobs as if you were her and see how difficult it is.

In our equal marriage (both worked full time) we BOTH did as much as the other at home, both paid half the very very expensive childcare costs. Eg if she went back to full time work would you pay half a live in au pair cost or find someone as I did to take children to school and look after them here at home until 6 ?

Her family helping to get you off the mortgage if they can (may not be an option) might be one solution.

I am not sure if she could use child tax credits to get a mortgage. She might be able to get a full time job on say £20k depending on where you live - my son has no trouble (we live in the SE) finding that kind of job and then the 4 grandparents and you and your wife could perhaps all see what collection and childcare you can do or fund may be between the 6 of you.

The bottom line is she has a very good chance of staying in the house with a mesher order in place if your spousal maintenance and her tax credits etc is enough to fund the mortgage so that the children are housed. I suppose if she's a bad mother and beats the children you could pay for a psychiatric report and get the children to live with you in the current house, hire your own live in au pair to help and then require the non resident parent wife to pay you spousal support - I know people who have done this and one who took the children abroad too which was particularly cruel as they then lost most touch with their mother.

We were lucky I earned enough to remortgage and take my ex off the mortgage and he could buy an unmortgaged hosue near by (lucky him - he got more than 50% of assets for a clean break and pays nothnig to the children so as you can see every situation differs hugely - I earned 10x more). We both compromised because neither of us wanted solicitors to have the sum in dispute between us. I know someone who spent £200,000 on solicitors' costs on divorce and plenty spend £20k so do both sides be very careful any costs are proportionate. My solicitors who advised but we both negotiated the pay off ourselves, said my ex might get from 39% to 60% of joint assets. We settled on about 59% as who knows? The rules are just not very clear except children come first and need to be housed.

Nothing to add

Just to say it's super hard to split up now with house prices

I live in london and don't know a single housewife presumably only millionaires have them these days or those in social housing

God knows what your wife is thinking expecting to be paid to do nowt full time next year when both are in school 9-3.

Get an au pair and from sept next year she can work full time

I'm a woman but no way ever would I have a non working spouse unless illness etc

2 kids is no big deal I work FT With 3 and my SIl has 4 and works 4 days a week

Someone needs to tell your ex to buck her ideas up

Thanks for the responses again. I didn't expect so many different opinions so soon. People have obviously had many different experiences. I wish I had some easier options but we don't and it is what it is.

namechangedtoday15 and lauriefairycake - I do have compromisers in mind, such as offering more of the share to allow her to have the largest deposit possible hence a smaller mortgage plus extra support during the early times to allow for training, job hunting etc. I have looked at employment opportunities for her, one fortunate thing is there is demand for candidates in her line of work. A mix of full time, part time, contract etc. By all means I am not saying it is easy but as I mention previously there is not being able to get work vs not wanting to work. She has not even looked for work but simply states she wants to be a SAHM. At this point all I am asking she considers and looks at work so we could both possibly be rehoused. Become realistic! Remember kids are in school full time. I take my hat off to others on here working hard to get by while having more children than we have. I guess I am trying to simplify it somewhat but its very black and white. Her not working simply means no mortgage for her and no way for me to rehouse without renting. I wish there were other options but at the moment this looks like all we have. Even if her family bought me out she still needs a mortgage on her own. She can only do that is she downsizes. With regards to my work, I work away on a rig at sea which is difficult being away but at the same time I am home for 6 months of the year making me available for large times such as holidays etc. Any work at home is a bit of remote work on the computer at night. I have just timed being home for July and August for the summer holidays so there is 6 weeks already from me. I cant do all term holidays but can probably do much more than most people working FT.

oldie2017 - Your thoughts are interesting thinking we could easily have a mesher order applied. Even though the house is too large being a 4 bed and there are only 2 children? How do I house them? It might seem to some on here that I seem a bit cold and only speaking mainly of finances but my goal is for both of us to have quality time with the children. We both get on with our kids great. I would be at a huge disadvantage being in rental accommodation (most likely a flat with not enough bedrooms for each child and no garden) and what I could do with them. There is a limit to trips and excursions you can do. My parents split when I was very young and I always hated going to have contact with my Dad as he just didn't have a warm home environment like we did with our Mum. My Mum still says that was the hardest thing for her having to send us away when we never wanted to. I WANT them to come and visit and look forward to it. Surely my housing needs where I can take the children can't simply be pushed to one side by giving a mesher? Isn't it important to allow both parents a good relationship with their children?

motherwhomanages - what can I say - your 'get on with life mentality' should be applauded and if she had half the get and go it sounds you have then I wouldn't be here. I guess I am at fault for letting her live the good life too long. Not working and she often overspent and that is how she wants to continue.

Overall I feel I am trying and she is not. AIBU? As mentioned by nearly everyone on here I agree with you all is I don't want it to go to court but the way she is currently I can't see anything else. She simply wants me to rollover and walk away and life carries on for her at least....

I'm afraid I have less sympathy now you've posted you're away 6 months of the year.

She's their CONSTANT and you're not. She's there all the time for them.

If you're away for 6 months then frankly you're not going to be much support - in fact you're there just enough time for her to get into work and start to rely on co-operative parenting before you go again and she's having to do it all herself.

It may be unsustainable once you've gone abroad again.

However that's only my opinion and the courts may well side with you and not agree to a mesher order for her to stay at home.

OP I think the update, that you're away on a rig for half of the year impacts on how the Court will view your situation. Obviously your solicitor will advise you but I think your absence for such long periods means that her role is key to the stability of the children and the Court will have due regard to that.

Have you considered dividing the house physically? If you're gone 6 months of the year maybe there's a less impactful way to do this without selling?

If you've both moved on emotionally from the relationship maybe this is possible

There are loads of practical ways to do this - if there's a garage with a bedroom above it convert it into a studio apartment? Then the girls don't need to move. Or go laterally and have downstairs as your place and upstairs as theirs.

I think her earning £25k is unrealistic in the short term. Having been out of the workplace for 6 years and needing flexible hours to cover childcare I would be surprised is she could earn more than about £12kpa until the kids are in senior school. She took this hit, which will affect her earning power for the rest of her life as well as her eventual pension, for the sake of the family and supporting your career by taking the full brunt of childcare in the early years. You have a duty to shield her from the poverty that decision could lead to even though the marriage is over. It's not reasonable for her to expect to be a sahm for 14 years supported entirely by you but neither can she be expected to be fully self supporting.

I am surprised that you assert that the house is the only asset. Are you seriously in a £5000per month job that has no pension? I doubt that. The pension could be worth as much as the house depending on how it is structured and she has as much claim on that as she does the house. You may be best off saying she can have the house in full so long as she relinquishes all claim to the pension.

Given that you are away so much it is not reasonable for you to expect to maintain a family home equal in size and comfort to that which the children live in most of the time. A largeish 2 bed flat is sufficient for your needs.

Could a small section of the existing 4 bed house be partitioned off to make a separate studio flat or one-bed maisonette which could be rented out to provide a steady income? If so, that income could be enough to support some additional borrowing to give you the deposit you need for your own small home? You are then effectively making it possible for your ex and dc to downsize without having to move house.

I can understand all your views. I have avoided going too deep into details thinking nobody would probably want to read it all.

When she left work and just prior to our first child I was not in this job and earned much less than half than I do now when our previous mortgage was also less. I initially said no to this job but it was her that talked me into it as she didn't enjoy the constant battle each month of making ends meet.

I know who did what in the past doesn't matter and we look at the current situation. This is not a forever job (certainly not for 14 years) and I am likely to return to a much lower wage in the future. It was a job for a period of our lives to get ourselves out of debt and improve standard of living. I am not away for a continuous 6 months luckily - no more than two at a time and sometimes with opportunity to come home in between that. Still not ideal I know but that is where we are.

There is no way I could earn enough back in a similar position I used to have (which is all I am likely to get) to cover our large mortgage and somewhere for me to live. I have been looking for alternative the past year or so but the number just haven't added up to even pay the outgoings being the sole earner. I feel I am stuck in this job (and have been) due to our financial commitments. Like I say there are no easy options. I will certainly not be in this job for 14 years so I cant see how we could maintain the mortgage payments living separately. She has spent heavily over the last years and those times now over.

Pension doesn't really come into it (this job has none). Our pensions aren't much and I have less than half what she has as I have only started paying into a pension for the last few years.

Converting the house into separate living areas just wouldn't work. She wouldn't want that and the house layout would make it difficult to divide.

I am trying to look at the long term picture also - I wish we could keep the home but I just can't see how we can maintain it long term - the repayments are high and my circumstances will change at some point meaning less income. Then we would both be in a weaker position to get our own mortgages. Keeping the house now would we simply be putting off the inevitable? I feel the later it is left the harder it will be for all? Maybe someone else has been through that?

I think given that you are planning to downsize your job and earn less than half what you earn now it's probably best she stays in the house to provide security for the children.

She can probably afford the current mortgage with child support, tax credits and child benefit.

You were expecting her to get a job and a 180k mortgage - what's the current mortgage? Is it about 250? So really there's very little in it. Maybe a £150 a month.

You don't really need to buy anywhere right now if you're going abroad again soon do you?

Children are not in school full time. Unless you can afford breakfast and after school club every day (which is very hard on young children) ,then working hours available are probably 9.30 until 2pm depending on travelling time. Jobs like that are gold dust.

So rough calculation would be £125 per week in childcare.

Are there any extended family to help with days when kids are ill etc? Otherwise this is a real nightmare on your own unless your employer is extremely understanding.

I could only wish the mortgage payments were the figures you come up with laurafairycake. It would be far simpler and affordable. Monthly is just over £1k. So no way near affordable on benefits. It requires a decent income. You mention it best she stay in the house to have security but it can produce quite the opposite. If our income is less we won't be able to afford the repayments and risk her having to move anyway. With enough equity she would look to get a mortgage of no more than £80k this would likely cut the monthly repayment by half to £500 which becomes more manageable.

As I said I'm not pushing her for a solid £25k salary and certainly wouldn't expect it straight away. I was just using that for mortgage calculations. I have heard some but not all mortgage companies accept child and tax credits as income. So I was hoping a combination of working, 16 hours or more a week and you get working credits also. So combining those and maintenance which can also be counted as income I hope we can get be in a better position? It certainly requires more investigation as I'm not entirely sure how it would all work in this case. We don't have those numbers yet so hard to work anything out.

Part time work would be the ideal, harder to find but is out there. I mean the kids are in school 5 days a week when I say FT. There would be some family available to help but not everyday, it could be a mixture of after school club and family if there were longer hours.

No I'm not looking to buy right now, as I say I am trying to plan long term. I would rent for a bit but obviously I don't want to end up renting for a long time and get trapped unable to move forward.

It's not meant to sound cruel but for her own good she needs to realise that lifestyle, work etc will not be the same as it has been. For now she just wants to continue as is and I'm the evil one for saying otherwise. Overspending has been an issue for awhile now and I guess I am partly to blame for allowing it.

I am interested to hear from others that have already been through similar and what the outcome was as I know no two situations are the same.

If you are away a lot of the time and your wife is not working I wonder if you need to look at relocating to a much cheaper area. It might not be ideal for the children but ultimately you all need to have a roof over your heads.

Really though you need to seriously lawyer up pronto.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to have couples counselling??

No one can give you a definitive answer on what will happen but from my own experience the majority have had a mesher order accepted. I know 8 people who had it accepted, however only in one case were the children as young as yours. There was little equity in the property.

In the other cases the children were over 10 and at least one of them was in secondary school.

My house is too big for us in divorce terms so had I not had enough money they we would definitely have been ordered to sell and move to somewhere smaller.

If in this case the house is much too big - 4 bed when you need 3 bed (which doesn't really shound that massive differene to me) and if the huge costs and two lots of stamp duty and moving costs really mean enough equity is released to produce two owned mortgaged family homes the family can support then a forced move I suppose might be ordered by the court or if you stopped work (not a good idea) or got a much worse paid job insufficient to pay the mortgage thus forcing her to sell I suppose that is might also be a plan or a rather cruel plan but one plenty of men do on divorce. Then the house has to be sold as neither of you are earning much and the equity divided (although she might get most of it even then) and the suddenly after that you get a higher paid job again on the rigs and have bought your own home by then. Not sure that wil work.

by the way i think most of us are writing above as if English law applies. If you r wife is up in say Aberdeen do be aware Scottish and English divorce law are quite different. In fact you might want to try to divorce her in Scotland actually if you live half the year up there by getting in first - it is called seizing the jurisdiction if that is better fo ryou financially under Scottish law, if that is where the rig is.

What I did before I decided to get divorced was go to see a solicitor and paid for an hour's meeting to ask my questions and get initial advice and it really helped.

I do know couples who have had no choice but to divide the house or live separaet lives in the same house - men often endure this to stay near the chidlren. Also I know a man who waited until the youngest child was 13 as by then the children can choose with whom they live and they picked him as their mother was awful.

I am currently getting divorced. STBX has moved into rented. He is FT and l am PT. He is unable to do any childcare M-F due to work so l do it all. Eldest is 14yrs and lets himself in after school. Youngest is 10yrs and goes to after school club and then a childminder on the two days l work. On those days we don't get home till 7pm.

STBX wanted the house on the market within two weeks of him leaving and it being a 50/50 split. He also wanted to keep all his pension and his redundancy money that he got last year.

I was advised to stay put and sign nothing. Much to my husbands disgruntlement we have done a final disclosure. We are both awaiting each other's paperwork now so we can negotiate our finances.

I was asked by my solicitor if l could increase my working hours. I explained that l could but l didn't feel it was acceptable to put ds2 into childcare everynight till 7pm or for ds1 to eat a ready meal each night abd be alone for that length of time - especially as he has autism.

My ideal would be to take over the mortgage and all bills so l can provide stability for the children especially ds1. When they are adults the house will be sold and each get our money then.