DD refusing contact

[snowflakesandstrawberries]

Long long long contact order case mainly due to DD 11 refusing to see abusive exh, both because of history and his current behaviour and environment.

For the last two contacts, DD has flatly refused to go, floating around at friends' and my house and ignoring his many abusive messages. He doesn't even know where she is, and hasn't asked to see if she is communicating with me. He hasn't asked me if I know where she is, or told me he doesn't know where she is. He just leaves hundreds of disgusting voicemails to her along the lines of "get back here now or else". He took DS back from contact to DM and said he didn't know where DD was.

I can't out myself by saying why, but I know he can't afford to take me back to court now (after a 4 year case).

• do I raise the issue that he doesn't know where she is, so as far as he is concerned, she is missing and he has done nothing at all about it?

• do I tell him where she is, effectively ensuring he will collect her and continue his abuse?

• how much trouble can I get into for not ensuring contact takes place, even though he isn't doing anything about it either? This kind of thing has been used against me in the past.

• should I be doing anything?

Apologies now as I will quite possibly drip feed, as this story has the most ridiculous background ever.

So you've got a court order, you don't agree with it, your daughter won't abide by it - what are you looking for help with?

No one can tell you it's fine because it's only fine until your ex decides to return the matter to court. This all sounds like some bizarre elaborate game between the two of you

I only just found out she isn't abiding by it and he won't talk to me about it. I can't get involved without breaking the order even more and I don't know what to do.

(not trained)

so have you been told you are not to contact her at all on his weekends as part of the court order?

is she Y6 or Y7?

Is there something the school could do to ensure that she has been collected by her Dad? Are they allowed to contact you?
Are you allowed to discuss this with them? (tricky if courts then see that as being obstructive)

Are you allowed to contact her friends' parents? Or would that count as trying to contact her or find out her whereabouts?

is there a neutral adult she can tell where she is as she is not allowed to contact you?

where was she on Saturday night?

Alice, how does op find out that she is not at contact, and ensure she goes to contact without breaking the order? is there something that she can do?

I think the picking up 10 mins earlier soubds like the best solution.

I don't think it is. I think she's handling it herself in the best she knows how. I think a ten minute earlier pick up will escalate things and she will go missing at lunchtime instead to avoid going with him.

I'd let her carry on with what she's doing on the strict understanding that I am to be informed where she is. There's no way on this earth I would make my child go to a place where she's neglected and hit.

Yes it's in the order that I'm not to contact them during contact. Because that is what makes them unhappy when they are there (not the neglect and abuse). Apparently, all the activities that I do with them in my own time is on purpose so his contact looks worse, but that's another story.

She is in Y6. He does pick her up, but then he lets her go again so the ten minutes wouldn't achieve anything. He just can't get hold of her again. And to be fair, if I received the kind of voicemails that she did, I wouldn't want to reply to them either, despite the consequences.

She stayed at friend's houses on Friday and Saturday night. I've asked them to let me know if she does again - they actually thought it was my week as it switched at half term and they are fully aware of the situation. That would be normal for her to do and they would have just assumed she had text me, as would be normal in my weeks.

I'm just terrified that this will be twisted into me breaking contact again but I don't know what the hell I can actually do?!

I'm not playing games at all. I escaped a long abusive marriage thinking it was in the best interests of the children, to be forced to send them to stay with him half of their time. They continue to be abused but there is never enough evidence, and me raising such concerns have led them to believe I don't want contact. Which I don't. Because I know they are hurt and miserable . I had to drag them there kicking and screaming for two years until the neighbours complained about the fuss it caused every week, which was when it was changed to school collections to ensure they had no choice.

I desperately wish they didn't have to go, but I do all I can to be positive to the children and have ensured that contact is never broken as I know the consequences.

All this time, my daughter believed I hated her too, for sending her to be hurt - until cafcass told her that she had to go, or her mum would go to prison. It was only then that my relationship with my daughter was "normal" again. My son now has MH problems as a result of being forced into an abusive situation each week.

The only "game" I play, is making sure I don't break another word of the order, and risk losing my children.

School collection will be irrelevant in September and somehow I'm meant to ensure that she catches two buses and travels across the city to him for contact, instead of just walking home.

I guess this is why I'm so stressed about the current situation, as it's only going to get worse.

If she is being deprived of basics like sanpro and being hit she should not have to go. Social services might help?

It's all been raised before. He denies it all, they say I'm making it up and I end up being the abusive one. Even when there are scratches, bruises and photos.

I have a year 6 girl. And no way would she just be txting me herself to let me know she is sleeping at a mates, with no communication between anyone else, and for two nights too? Sounds like she needs reigning in a bit.

That's what she has been doing on his weekends. On mine there is much more coming and going, and chatting between the parents, and having kids here. It's not as wild as it sounds. He is the one letting her vanish with just a text for two days.

But my point is, what do I do when she then turns up at mine after two days of him allowing her to do this, without him knowing where she is and him refusing to discuss anything with me?!

And when I am at work and she leaves school in September, how do I ensure she catches buses to his house instead of coming home?

You can't, the court order sounds ridiculous. Can you not ask for cafcass to go see her at school... then they can speak to her about it. Even if nothing can be done it's then documented that you tried

The court process is over and cafcass are no longer involved. They have however, lodged with social services, a note that says if mother reports further abuse, this has been fully dealt with by the courts and is not true and they have to inform the courts to bring proceedings back.

Alice are you reading ops posts, of course the dd doesn't want to go there he is abusing her!

I have no advice op but I am so sorry for you and your poor kids.
I see this on here time and time again. Contact ordered even if the child's at risk. It's sickening that a system meant to protect them puts them in danger.

Oswin yes I am reading the OPs posts and the whole situation far more complex than the little bit that the OP has posted here.

Goodness knows what someone would have to have done to have wound up with the courting ordering that no contact is made while the children are with the other parent. I would be very surprised if the order prevented the child from contacting the mother to say where she was and it seems bizarre that the child would ignore the order to go to Dad but fail to contact her mother because the order says her mother can't contact her.

OP if you have rock solid proof of abuse (threatening texts and voicemails, bruises, scratches etc) and Children's Services aren't taking you seriously you need to escalate the matter until someone listens to you.

Both children have been interviewed and had injuries photographed by the police in the past, cafcass said I was making it up and encouraging them. The NSPCC have been involved, cafcass told them it was being dealt with.

The only reason I am not allowed contact with the children during his time is because I am too vocal about the abuse. That isn't how victims behave apparently.

Yes there is a massive back story, but it really is just repeated versions of the same issues. Kids hate contact because it is horrible and abusive. He denies it is horrible and abusive. Therefore Mum is obstructing contact. It really is as simple and as complicated as that.

I just need to avoid returning to court. DD isn't out of control in any other way, she is just making her feelings clear. She has spent her whole childhood fighting this.

Then I'd recommend you speak to a solicitor who can have access to the entire file. Random people on the internet giving well meanin advice based on a one-sided snapshot of an issue is likely to do more harm than good.

If there is evidence (abusive texts and voicemails) I would get a shit hot lawyer and take it back to court.

I don't say that lightly because of the costs involved but I would beg, borrow and sell what could be sold.

I wouldn't make a child spend time with someone I knew was being nasty and abusive. Keep a log of events & make sure she keeps hold of the evidence of the texts/messages.

Look your priority is to keep your child safe. You MUST ensure you at least know where she is. If she decides to stay with a friend rather than see her father SHE can text you, and you can ask that the parents text you. You wouldn't be contacting her - it would be her contacting you, and therefore not breaking the court order. If you want to keep your nose clean you should also text him where she is giving him the option of fetching her. And keep a diary of every single contact event.

I think that's where we've got to now titchy. The closer friends all know the history and I've explained recent events and will all text me if she's hiding out there. They've been letting her stay as they know how unhappy going to exh makes her. I've told DD that an adult always needs to know where she is, even if that means texting me when she should be with exh. Anyone know if this means breaking the court order? She's available and he lets her go?

But what about when she's coming home, and I'm texting him to say she's here and he isn't responding? Am I still breaking the order?

I think if you can escalate somehow to get this reviewed again it might be for the best but it does sound like those who are supposed to be protecting her are failing spectacularly. Is there any way she can report this abuse herself now she is older? Any way to escalate to someone you haven't dealt with before? Get an advocacy group involved? Media? though of course that is fraught..