Please help. What can I legally do to stop him driving?

[BarbarianMum]

Really desperate for advice.

Last autumn my mother and I both contacted the DVLA regarding my father's driving. He's in his mid 80s and his driving skills had deteriorated noticeably to the point where we felt he wasn't safe behind the wheel. After conferring with his doctors this winter, the DVLA finally withdrew his license at the end of March. At this time he was also diagnosed as being in the early stages of Alzheimers disease - this explains quite a lot .

Despite having lost his license and therefore being uninsured he won't stop driving. Not far, but regular short journeys round town.

He's really not safe to be on the roads .

We have tried reasoning with him/begging/arguing with him. This just results in a massive loss of temper on his part - lots of ranting and raving. Sometimes he 'agrees' to stop - then a few days later he starts again.

We have threatening to go to the police. We have been down to the police station to report him. They say there is nothing they can do unless they catch him in the act - won't come and speak to him, won't act on our reports. They say that if we tell them when he's in the car and where he's going they might send out a car "if one is available". But we never known when he's going or where - he's got very secretive with us (obviously because he knows we'll try and stop him).

He is becoming increasingly aggressive when challenged (I think this is related to the Alzheimers) - and my mum's been worried on a couple of occasions that he's going to strike her (he has never done so but she's scared he might).

Sorry for the essay. My question is "what are we legally entitled to do to stop him driving? The police have suggested that we take away his keys and we've taken away the spare set but the others are always on him and it would require force to do this.

Can we sabotage the engine so the car won't move?

Can we take the car away and hide it? Would that be theft?

Any other ideas? I can't believe we have to wait until there is an accident

*The police have suggested that we take away his keys and we've taken away the spare set but the others are always on him and it would require force to do this.

He sleeps, presumably.*

Ricardian please at least read the OP's posts, if not the full thread

Disable the car motor, using one of the methods described here - something that isn't immediately visible (not a steering wheel lock), or easily fixable. But don't tell him you've done it. Don't leave a note explaining anything. If you tell him what you've done / why you've done it, he is likely to become irrationally angry (based on your description).

When the car won't start, act surprised, bewildered, and sympathetic. But don't let on that you have anything to do with it. Yes, it is not truthful, but given his current condition, it is the path of least resistance.

I think this could work. No one's fault etc.

But this, to make someone with early onset Alzheimer's doubt their memory like this, is NOT nice -

tell him you've put the keys on the nightstand or something. Then tell him he must have moved them.

My heart goes out to you. DF had several heart attacks, a close brush with death and was left a poor shell of his former self. He refused to give up the car because 'it was his independence'. I finally bullied his GP into coming to the house (when I was there) to tell him that he wasn't fit to drive anymore. Doctors hate doing this - they would rather do nothing at all. She would have backed down, had I not been there and I finally had to tell DF that I didn't want him to have an accident and die, as I lost DM in a car accident. He was livid that I had said that, screaming and yelling at me that I was a selfish bitch to bring that up and remind him (they had been divorced for a decade when DM died), but reluctantly agreed to give up the car. At this point, he was on a zimmer and could barely walk to the bathroom, never mind get along his path and down a couple of flight of steps to the road where the car was.

My housemate's mother also had a brush with death and the doctor at the hospital told her to give up driving. She agreed, and I was able to get both her car keys and put them away before she got out of hospital. By then, she had forgotten that she'd agreed to give up driving. Dementia was already making inroads. We got her to agree to sell her car, which I arranged, and the night before it was to be sold, she was on the phone demanding her keys back. The following morning, she signed the agreement letter like a lamb, but bitched endlessly about not having a car. It was always my fault. I felt hellish, but even then I realised how good it was that her keys were where I could get hold of them, as her driving had been terrifying us for several years, but we were just young and stupid and as she 'only drove locally and very slowly' it would all be fine.

I wish you luck in sorting this out.

In my experience, if you do anything it will be your fault. So the act surprised after disabling the car in some way is a good plan.

I would absolutely not take the keys-we've been there and tried that and it was a disaster. Disabling the engine and phoning local garages so if he calls them they know not to fix it seems like the gentlest plan.

That and getting a taxi company on side-so if he does need to go some where he isn't trapped.

You have my total sympathies. Awful disease, awful situation and potentially awful
Consequences. for you and your mum. And for your dad too-it's his illness talking after all.

A friend of mine had this problem. It wasn't becaise he was stubborn, but he forgot that he wasn't allowed to drive because of dementia.
She had to hide the car keys and the tractors' key.
It not just him in danger is it, it's me, it's my dm and my dk, and every other member of public.
No more Mrs Nice-guy. No more debating with him. Hide them and no more discussion.

Also, my sympathies

with my grandfather we just took the car away.
but: we put everything he and grandmother needed in place: meals on wheels, supermarket shop, cleaner, weekly taxi to local church group, taxi to dr apps.

I know someone who took the battery out of her fil car for the same reason.

I agree that if you take the spark plugs you need to show the DVLA letter to the local garage and ask nicely for their cooperation. Or make it clear that if they let him drive the car away from the garage they would be aiding and abetting a criminal offence if they seem disinclined to cooperate.

If he's prepared to nod and agree when the doctor tells him to stop driving, could the doctor persuade him to hand over the keys there and then?

Thanks to everyone who have contributed their ideas or offered support on this thread.

This morning I spoke to the Alzheimer's Association - they were sympathetic but couldn't offer any new ideas. The plan then was to immobilize his car.

On the way to my parents though I stopped at the other police station (the town has two and my parents live equidistant between them). Unlike their colleagues across town, they were really helpful and immediately made an appointment to send someone round to talk to him - they'll be there first thing tomorrow.

Hopefully this will do the job - my mum is going to suggest that they ask for his set of keys whilst they're there. They have also said they do have the powers to impound the car if he refuses to stop driving.

Anyway, I just wanted to update in case anyone in the future searches on a similar topic.

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Although it doesn't really solve the confrontation issue.

I'm glad that you've found some police officers who are willing to talk to him. Hopefully it will make the difference - fingers crossed it goes well tomorrow morning.

I hope the police can solve it. If not, two wheels off overnight and axles on bricks.

I'm so sorry.

The police came this morning. Spoke to him kindly but very firmly. He has handed over his driving license and the rest of his car keys. I will arrange to get the cars on the property and remove the batteries to avoid future temptation.

He is very upset. Now I can stop worrying and concentrate on feeling sorry for him, and the situation he is in. And try and find ways to help him feel less worthless.

Thank you all again.

that's good news and must be a big relief.

how about selling the car and using the money to fund taxi/assisted travel? It doesn't do a car any good to be sitting there, as well as costing insurance/tax etc.

I agree but that might be too painful for him at the moment - he still maintains he's going to get his license back. Maybe in a few months.

He can afford taxi travel btw, and my mum/I can quite often give him lifts to medical appointments etc. He just likes driving and the independence that comes with it.

I understand - one step at a time.

That's good news. I'd encourage him using taxis.

With my gran, once we'd disabled her car (with flat tyres) and she'd got used to not driving it, we then suggested she sold/gave it to my cousin. It was easier for her to feel she was helping my cousin out and to part with it that way. Might be worth a try if you have anyone in the family who needs a car.

No real advice but my dh works in a garage. He has had an elderly lady ring up wanting to have the locks replaced on her car as she had lost her keys. This was all priced up for her, arranged etc. Turns out she had lost her license due to medical reasons, and her son had taken the keys from her. She didn't remember and wanted to drive her car. If you do take the keys think about whether he will remember why he doesn't have them. It might be best to disable the car to begin with until you can get more advice.

My sister and i removed my fathers car when he was diagnosed with dementia. I sat and explained why he couldnt drive anymore but no idea if he understood. He asked a few times where the car was but eventually stopped. Hopefully it will all blow over and hell accept it. Maybe worth you joining the alzheimers society as they send out a regular newsletter with ideas of dealing with behaviour which could help in future.