Please help. What can I legally do to stop him driving?

[BarbarianMum]

Really desperate for advice.

Last autumn my mother and I both contacted the DVLA regarding my father's driving. He's in his mid 80s and his driving skills had deteriorated noticeably to the point where we felt he wasn't safe behind the wheel. After conferring with his doctors this winter, the DVLA finally withdrew his license at the end of March. At this time he was also diagnosed as being in the early stages of Alzheimers disease - this explains quite a lot .

Despite having lost his license and therefore being uninsured he won't stop driving. Not far, but regular short journeys round town.

He's really not safe to be on the roads .

We have tried reasoning with him/begging/arguing with him. This just results in a massive loss of temper on his part - lots of ranting and raving. Sometimes he 'agrees' to stop - then a few days later he starts again.

We have threatening to go to the police. We have been down to the police station to report him. They say there is nothing they can do unless they catch him in the act - won't come and speak to him, won't act on our reports. They say that if we tell them when he's in the car and where he's going they might send out a car "if one is available". But we never known when he's going or where - he's got very secretive with us (obviously because he knows we'll try and stop him).

He is becoming increasingly aggressive when challenged (I think this is related to the Alzheimers) - and my mum's been worried on a couple of occasions that he's going to strike her (he has never done so but she's scared he might).

Sorry for the essay. My question is "what are we legally entitled to do to stop him driving? The police have suggested that we take away his keys and we've taken away the spare set but the others are always on him and it would require force to do this.

Can we sabotage the engine so the car won't move?

Can we take the car away and hide it? Would that be theft?

Any other ideas? I can't believe we have to wait until there is an accident

Insurance is void as no license.

Oh god, my dad in on warfarin too! If it's any help my dad was only angry and nasty/aggressive when it was early onset, as though he knew he was losing control and refused to give in, which is what is happening with your poor dad, it must be horrendous to admit to yourself let alone your loved ones you are losing your independence.

What about a chat from the doctor? On one of their (weekly it seems) visits mum mentioned it to the doctor who was very enthusiastic that dad should give up driving, he agreed with everything she said.....until he got home. Perhaps the doc could persuade him to hand the keys over?

I can't see that it would be illegal to immobilise the car (steering lock or clamp) because, despite the fact that he owns it, he can't legally drive it. Horrible situation for you and your mum OP

Disable the car motor, using one of the methods described here - something that isn't immediately visible (not a steering wheel lock), or easily fixable. But don't tell him you've done it. Don't leave a note explaining anything. If you tell him what you've done / why you've done it, he is likely to become irrationally angry (based on your description).

When the car won't start, act surprised, bewildered, and sympathetic. But don't let on that you have anything to do with it. Yes, it is not truthful, but given his current condition, it is the path of least resistance.

go round and ask him if you can borrow his car -or borrow the jack, or get something out of the glove compartment.

Then tell him you've put the keys on the nightstand or something. Then tell him he must have moved them.

If your dad has a neurologist, he or she can contact the DVLA directly to get his licence revoked or, if you feel he'd take this better, organise an assessment of his driving. My own dad has Huntington's disease and we went through what you're experiencing now - I know it's awful

The following is from the driving advice section on the Huntington's Disease Association website - the principle is the same, although your dad has Alzheimer's.

"The power to grant, refuse or revoke a driving licence lies with the Secretary of State via the DVLA; which has a Medical Advisory Unit staffed by medical personnel. Medical assessment of disability is undertaken by the Medical Advisory Unit and your general practitioner.

The DVLA has a number of options available to them
which may include:-
(Revised January 2015)
 restricting your driving licence to 1, 2 or 3 years, which enables a regular medical review to take place.
 requesting a re-test or an assessment at one of their centres.
 revocation of your licence.

If you are in doubt about whether you need to inform
the DVLA:

1. Ask your doctor for advice
2. Write to the Drivers Medical Group, DVLA, Swansea

SA99 1TU.

1. Telephone Customer Enquiries Unit on 0300 7906806

He has lost his licence! But is still driving as per the OP.

MyLocal - it sucks, doesn't it?

Tried the 'chat with the doctor.' He nodded along in agreement to all the doctor said, promised not to drive any more. Lasted 3 days. So good idea but no banana.

Am going to talk over all these ideas with dh and mum, so won't post again tonight. Will check in again tomorrow though, so any further wisdom gladly received.

Thanks all - that's to share.

Just realised that he's already had his license revoked - so sorry! I think it'd be worth asking your dad's neurologist to contact the police, there must be SOMETHING that can be done.

What a dreadful worry for you and your mum.

Most people I know in this situation disable the vehicles by removing the spark plugs.

What about simply leaving the lights on so the battery goes flat? And remove any jump leads from the car.

You can disconnect the battery, but that will reset everything in the car which could get annoying.

If you don't mind paying £100 or so, you could get an immobiliser fitted to the car which would prevent anyone without the key fob being able to start it. Any decent car security company would be able to advise you on this. It might be an easier option than sabotaging the car.

Do not manhandle the keys off him. That would be terrible.

If you don't like the idea of disabling the engine, have the police clamp the car, and then say to your father 'for some odd reason, even though we've called and called, they simply won't come to unclamp it. I don't know what is wrong with them'.....or some such line.

The police won't just come and clamp the car on request.

The other thing to remember if you do disconnect the battery or disable the car in some other minor way is that he might just fix it himself.

I'm sorry that you're going through this and that you're not getting more help from the police.

I had similar with my dad and he was caught driving by the police - I hadn't tried involving them before as we thought he had agreed to stop driving while everything was sorted out (he was pestering his GP and the dvla to let him drive again).

The police had a long conversation with him during which he insisted that he was OK to drive and wouldn't stop! The police then involved the crisis mental health team. Fortunately my dad processed everything the police had said overnight and the following day he gave me his car.

If the police aren't prepared to talk to him about the consequences of driving without a licence (apparently my dad's local police would have spoken to him if we'd approached them) then perhaps the mental health team is the way to go.

Doh - accidentally posted before finished! In my dad's case it was definitely having people outside the family involved in the situation that made him realise he had to stop driving. I hope that you find a way to make your dad realise he needs to stop.

Our DDad only stopped driving when he'd crashed his car. Then he knew it needed repairing and didn't ever get around to arranging for that to happen. It wasn't alzheimers in his case, but cancer and side effects of his meds/infections that meant we were concerned for his safety and that of others if he was still driving. The crash he had came about on a day when he thought he was quite well and when we didn't realise he was coming down with yet another infection. It was a very lucky thing that noone was hurt and it was just a fence and his car that were damaged. But we all felt bad that we hadn't realised that things had got that bad.

It was a real blow to his pride when a previous medical emergency (fracturing his pelvis due to weakness from cancer in his bones) meant he couldn't drive. It was an upsetting time all round as we tried to get him to understand that it was best not to drive then.

And it was best in the end that he knew he couldn't drive until he'd sorted the car and that he never really got around to phoning anyone to come and sort it for him. We think he knew deep down that he'd never drive again.

Disabling the car really does sound like the best option here, op. He will be frustrated that the car won't start and not able to do much about it and it will keep him and others safe.

Let the tyres down?

Sorry you're in this situation, OP

The police have suggested that we take away his keys and we've taken away the spare set but the others are always on him and it would require force to do this.

He sleeps, presumably.

Alternatively, drive it yourself (using the spare keys and your own insurance) to somewhere where the police tow cars away (the forecourt of the police station. perhaps), and leave it. You can only get cars out of a pound if they are taxed and insured, and if it's uninsured, the police won't release it to anyone. Tell him it must have been stolen.

Is it possible to get another set of "ford" (or whatever make of car it is) keys and swap them onto his key ring?

That way he still has "his keys" but they won't work his car

Ask at scrap dealers or junk yards or garages if they have any old keys lying around that you could have an old one of

I'm sure if you explain they would try to help you

Iyswim

Good luck

I think doing something and leaving a note is the best option.
Alzheimer's can be frustrating and confusing enough without doing something and denying all knowledge.