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Original poster

My wife's work deduct a days pay when she has to stay at home with our ill child

312 replies

DabbyBob · 02/02/2016 18:15

Hi All.

Just looking for some advise regarding pay rights for a teacher in full time employment - she is employed by the local council and has been in her permanent position for 12years or more.

So every time that she needs to take a day off because one of our children are ill her bosses at the school will deduct a days pay. This makes things really difficult as it puts all the pressure on me to work from home... Which i will do 2/3rds of the time, but sometimes like now (away on business) i cant take the day off.

My wife tells me that its all leagal and that they are within their rights to do this. But for me it just seems so wrong when you have 12 years working there!

I guess the simple question is: is this leagal or does my wife have some rights here?

Thanks.

OP posts:
Questionsquestionsquestions · 02/02/2016 19:17

That all depends on the school Showme - we don't have cover supervisors in my school and there is no one spare, so if someone is off, there is no one to cover them and a supply is necessary from day 1.

bellaSorela · 02/02/2016 19:21

legal but wrong in my opinion

Valmur · 02/02/2016 19:22

As many have already said: yes it's legal.

That said I'm more sympathetic to your gripe than others (full disclosure: I am also married to a teacher).

Many non state employers do pay for time off in these circumstances. If we want the best to teach in the state sector surely we should provide incentives?

SenecaFalls · 02/02/2016 19:23

I'm really surprised at this. I'm in the US and obviously there are differences from state to state, but I have taught and have a lot of teacher friends and family, and they all have paid "personal" days that are similar to sick leave that can be used for caring for children. I think the average nationally is 4 days a year.

ShowMeTheWonder · 02/02/2016 19:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Brightbluebells · 02/02/2016 19:24

I have never worked at a school with cover supervisors (primary). It is two weeks before the absence insurance kicks in where I am, so it costs a fortune if people are off. Whilst my children were young, my husband took a huge pay cut and changed his job so that he could always be available. Our quality of life did take a nose dive. It does make me a little peeved when others haven't organised their lives well enough to be able to look after their own sick children and then expect to be paid for it. Cake and eating it.

IWasHereBeforeTheHack · 02/02/2016 19:25

Meet my colleague, OP! I have had to explain regularly to her that when her child is ill she is not entitled to paid leave. She obviously thinks I'm unreasonable and vindictive misreading the policy, as she keeps double checking with HR. She's outraged at the idea of having to use annual leave, but it's what everyone else does. DH and I always kept a couple of days each in case they were needed for sick children or some other emergency (school closed due to burst pipes etc).

Burnshersmurfs · 02/02/2016 19:32

Bells Some people don't have husbands, and therefore aren't able to organise their lives quite as easily. Appreciate that isn't the case with the op, but it seems a bit narrow minded to assume that everyone's situation is exactly the same as yours-just that they haven't sorted it out as well as you have. There could be a number of reasons for the op's choice which don't involve them dumping on others to enjoy the life of Riley.

liletsthepink · 02/02/2016 19:33

It's quite normal not to be paid when children are off sick and many employees don't get any sick pay for themselves let alone for their children. Many parents choose to work part time while their children are school aged in order to cover illness, training days etc

Blu · 02/02/2016 19:34

OP, I think it is good that as your work can be done from home your employers have a good outlook and allow you to work from home in an emergency.

Would they allow you to say 'sick child, off home, won't be working' and still pay you?

Teachers, nurses, firefighters, ferry captains, surgeons, gym instructors...not really possible to work from home except on the rare planning day, writing up policies or something.

It's one of the crunch points for the working parent. Schools don't employ cover 'just in case' and we as parents don't employ nannies to be on standby 'just in case'.

ABetaDad1 · 02/02/2016 19:36

I cant believe that anyone seriously thinks that they should be paid for not going to work!

There are many and growing unfairnesses in the workplace at the moment but this isn't one of them.

BumpPower · 02/02/2016 19:38

Not read all so someone else might have said this but your Wife seems to be getting a good deal!! I am teacher. I get time off (unpaid) to arrange emergency childcare and time off unpaid to go to child medical appointments but I couldn't ring in and get say 3 days unpaid leave for chicken pox etc.
Could you not take time off too?

chosenone · 02/02/2016 19:38

The problem is a lot of teachers do extra hours based on goodwill. I don't mean the planning and marking they need to do as part of their job. Other events such as ;discos/fairs/concerts/plays/saturday school/overnight trips etc. No extra pay purely voluntary. Many heads allowed occasional days off with dependents to 'reward' this goodwill. If pay is always taken away for these days off, goodwill can be withdrawn, events and visits cancelled. Teachers used to withdraw goodwill in the 80's to prove a point. Works both ways.

fruitpastille · 02/02/2016 19:39

I've always been paid although it is v rare for me to take time off as I'm part time plus grandparents can sometimes help for mild ailments. However when your child is seriously ill, call me old fashioned I think they need mum or dad! Not least because you need to speak to the doctor. I don't see why some of people's sick pay entitlement can't be used for children - perhaps a doctors note could be required?

Brightbluebells · 02/02/2016 19:40

Burns - with my first child, I was a single parent. I never expected to be paid to look after my child when she was sick. I fully understand that people have a range of circumstances but I still don't see why people should be paid to be at home with their own sick children.

SenecaFalls · 02/02/2016 19:40

So are there a lot of jobs in the UK that don't have paid sick leave?

LentilStew · 02/02/2016 19:42

I'm also a teacher and mine is unpaid. But I have been asked to provide lesson plans if more than 1day. Last year 3 of mine had chicken pox and I took 1wk and DH took 1wk. None of mine was paid yet my ht expected me to send in lessons. Can't have it both ways.

And I do understand the ops point about loyalty. Nobody ever thinks about the unpaid evenings you give freely or the nights you stay late or the after school sports fixtures you ferry your Y6s to. I'd say they add up to 3 or 4 days of unpaid labour.

Burnshersmurfs · 02/02/2016 19:42

But people are paid for 'not going to work' all the time- sickness and holiday pay. Caring for dependents is not that different to personal sickness, is it? As it stands, it just effectively becomes another barrier for women in the workplace, and certainly makes it almost impossible for lone parents (mostly women).

Valmur · 02/02/2016 19:45

I completely agree with Lentil if it is unpaid then it should come with zero expectations that the teacher does work by lesson planning or marking.

GinandJag · 02/02/2016 19:45

Teachers can't use annual leave to cover sickness, but other professionals don't have 13 weeks plus annual leave. We can't have it both ways.

My view is that it is something you really just have to suck up. If you are a teacher who makes a lot of contributions to the whole life of the school (so colleagues covering are paying back to you a little), it would be madness for the bursar to threaten to dock your pay and lose your goodwill. However, if what you do is contained to your own teaching, amazing as that may be, then losing a day's pay is to be expected.

No one promised an easy life.

SenecaFalls · 02/02/2016 19:46

Caring for dependents is not that different to personal sickness.

Exactly. In my work, the same type of leave applies to both. It is paid; of course there is a limit, but the number of days per year is sufficient for most people.

elementofsurprise · 02/02/2016 19:47

But people are paid for 'not going to work' all the time- sickness and holiday pay.

Loads of jobs don't have sick pay. Certainly not for the first few days - and since changes in legislation you can be fired after that without much comeback.

DontKillMyVibe · 02/02/2016 19:48

Seneca - a lot of companies especially public sector organisations incl teaching do offer paid sick leave. However the individual isn't sick and is fit for work so why should they receive sick pay?

Burnshersmurfs · 02/02/2016 19:49

Bit of a race to the bottom then element -it might be like that in some industries, but it shouldn't be.

Shutthatdoor · 02/02/2016 19:50

Many non state employers do pay for time off in these circumstances

Many also don't. I have never worked anywhere that has