Ex wants to move abroad with our daughter

[TogerOverAndOut]

I have been advised by a good friend that this is an excellent place to seek advice.
My ex and I have an eight year old daughter. We separated when our daughter was two years old. We were not married and contact and maintenance have been arranged amicably between ourselves but never legally or formally.
My daughter lives with my ex who has recently remarried. My ex has told me that her and her husband are moving to Italy and taking our daughter abroad to live with them in Italy.
I am devastated. Can I stop them from doing this?

I don't think the onus should be on the OP to move and try and be close to his child, it really should be the moving party to try and come to a solution. It is scary that parents can move children abroad without the consent from the other parent.

Has OP's partner thought about moving abroad leaving OP to take care of the child here?

I definitely agree. My view on divor is that neither parent should move the children from where it is settled and if the mother wants to rush off to New Zealand to live near her mother she should leave the child in the UK with the father and go off there, ditto Saudi and ditto whatever the gender of the one who wants to move, unless everyone agrees.

" .... but I want to know what my rights are just in case."

Parental Responsibility gives parents responsibilities for their children and rights to carry out their responsibilities. When both parents have PR they have equal responsibility to decide important issues such as permanently relocating a child abroad. It is a criminal offence to relocate a child abroad permanently without consent from all those with PR for the child or permission from the court.

Unmarried fathers have PR if they jointly registered the birth of the child with the mother (from 1 December 2003), made a parental responsibility agreement with the mother or have a PR order from the court.

IF you don't have PR your ex doesn't need your consent to relocate the child abroad. That isn't a huge hurdle, you can apply to court for a PR order. However unless there is an immediate flight risk negotiation or mediation may be a better way forward (see the Reunite website babybarrister recommended for advice about prevention of international child abduction.)

Good contact for children relies on parents working together, or at least not against each other. Going to court tends to leave parents feeling resentful and resistant which makes working together in the future difficult or impossible. The last thing you need, I would have thought, is hostility between you and your ex if she is likely to be granted permission to move with your daughter. If you consult a family lawyer they can advise where you stand and what options there are in your particular circumstances. Then you can make an informed decision how to proceed.

We are currently going through this. if you have pr she cannot take child out of the country for more than 28 days without your permission. to enforce this you need a prohibitive steps order £215. once gained then notify passport office and have passport flagged to stop exit. If she wants to go, then she has to make an 'order to remove from the jurisdiction' . my dh is the responder in this at the moment. we can show she is doing it for 'lifestyle' only and is not in children best interest. these cases succeed (75%) if the mother can show she would be psychologically disturbed by a refusal. BUT this is almost always because mother is from the country she wants to go to, has family and support there and has nothing other than child and few prospects in this country. we are self representing and so far, so hopeful...costs to her so far (stupid lawyer sent letter to us in error) is £10,500 ..and we haven't got close to a final hearing. No legal aid for this so she has to pay every penny..I wish you well .

Zippey there's no "scary" about it. One parent cannot take a child out of the country for longer than 30 days if the other parent does not consent.

OP if, in the worst case scenario, your ex does take your dd to Italy, under The Hague Convention you can very swiftly get your dd delivered back to you.

Consent to move abroad is not easily given. A court case can take at least a year, usually two, and even then permission is by no means guaranteed.

Get it in writing print that you don't consent. Be very clear.

Wow you lot are amazing and so helpful. Thank you.

Your Ex is unlikely to gain permission to move the children to another country if you have regualar contact (only normally in expeciatal cicumstances aka home nation etc would it be granted) and sorry to say the mothers happyness is very very low on the prioty list for the move and if she does succed (unlikely) she would be responsable for the majorty of the costs assoicated with mantaining contact and you would gain the majority of the holidays

(Aka my brothers EX won a court battle to take the children to New Zealand except that she has to pay for flights 5 children (4 times a year which apprently costs her £10,000 + a year apprently which she constently moans about)

So in the unlikely event she gets permission you would still get a lot of contact time that your EX will most likely have to fund herself (as the movign parent)

And for people telling him to move to itaily to be with the children ? do you know the vast majorty of job in itaily require you to be fleunt in itilian? and getting a job in itaily without being fleunt is near impossible? so how would you suggest the OP gets a job or do you expect him to have to spend a large amount of money for langauge lessons + costs assoicasted with moving countries to keep his EX happy ?

(the money would be better spent in court to stop her moving be damned if it annoys her why should you have to please her when she wants to move the children to another country and if she moves without premission (of the father / court) its one of the best ways for her to lose main residency of the children as it will be classed as child abduction

Please think very carefully before going to court for a PSO. As a pp states it will most likely damage your relationship with your ex indefinitely. Court is very expensive and very stressful. Please quite genuinely explore with your ex how she thinks your relationship with your DD can be preserved.

I don't think you need to get the PSO. I think you simply need to clearly state your opposition and let her be the one to apply for leave to remove the children if she wants to.

Like a pp said, it will cost her a great deal of time and money and she'll have to arrange and at least part fund large amounts of access.

It's likely that, faced with this, she won't bother.

Saying that, I wouldn't be actively facilitating this move or discussing possible access with her. Stick with a firm no and let her decide what happens next,

I'm afraid I don't agree being granted permission to move is unlikely. The probability of permission being granted is higher than it not being granted. Recent research found in around 70% of relocation cases permission was granted and that the shorter the proposed move, the more likely it is that the relocation will be allowed.Therefore moves within the EU are allowed more often than moves to US, Australia or NZ. Every case depends on the particular facts and it is a mistake to make direct comparisons with individual outcomes because the circumstances can be very different.

If the orders mentioned above are easy to obtain, it might be worth doing to be on the safe side (say to ex that you are not happy, and that you are only doing it to protect the situation). Otherwise they could go without telling you. A friend of ours has spent thousands trying to get contact with his daughter - he used to see her once a month (they lived opposite sides of the country after the mom moved away), then mum took her for a holiday - and stayed in that country (she was originally from there, although daughter was 10 years old and only spoke English). He has taken it to various courts and although he legally has the right to have access under UN law and UNICEF rights of the child, the local authorities there seem to disregard this. Almost every time he has been, the child has been "too ill" to see him or there has been a "mix-up" with the dates and times.

OP, go for the order, make a clear statement that you are against this from the very start.

I agree that it's not helpful to tell you a move is likely or unlikely. These cases are very fact specific. But if you are emphatically not happy with the proposal, you need to make that clear now and start discussions, if possible.