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Original poster

Ex wants to move abroad with our daughter

39 replies

TogerOverAndOut · 29/03/2015 21:14

I have been advised by a good friend that this is an excellent place to seek advice.
My ex and I have an eight year old daughter. We separated when our daughter was two years old. We were not married and contact and maintenance have been arranged amicably between ourselves but never legally or formally.
My daughter lives with my ex who has recently remarried. My ex has told me that her and her husband are moving to Italy and taking our daughter abroad to live with them in Italy.
I am devastated. Can I stop them from doing this?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 29/03/2015 21:18

Yes there are steps you can take - a prohibitive steps order could be an option.

What are they suggesting for contact if they move?

fairgame · 29/03/2015 21:18

You could apply for a prohibited steps order i think

www.gtlaw.co.uk/services/family-law/children/specific-issue-and-prohibited-steps-order

AlpacaMyBags · 29/03/2015 21:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

duftlys · 29/03/2015 21:21

Italy is not the other side of the world. would you really be determined to stand in the way of what could be a great opportunity for your DD?

I'm not totally without sympathy for you but I'm not sure that legally standing in the way of their plans is a good idea. Imagine the stress that would cause in your daughter's home.

Original poster
TogerOverAndOut · 29/03/2015 21:25

Our daughter does not speak any Italian and has no links with the country. Unfortunately my ex has a history of being rather selfish and putting her own needs first. I haven't discussed contact because my ex is also a compulsive liar and I'm not sure I believe her but I may need to take action just in case she is telling the truth.
I have contact with our daughter every other weekend from Friday evening until Sunday evening.
Thank you for your speedy replies. I appreciate it. How would I get a prohibited steps order and how much would it cost? Could I do it myself or would I need a solicitor?

OP posts:
fairgame · 29/03/2015 21:27

You can find application forms here
www.gov.uk/looking-after-children-divorce/apply-for-court-order

it costs £215 according to that website.
Good luck Flowers

Singleandproud · 29/03/2015 21:29

How often do you see her?

Will moving to Italy improve her quality of life? If so, would seeing her less frequently but for a longer duration be possible ie you have her for a larger portion of the school holidays and skype in between? She's getting older, the chances are she'll soon be spending more time with friends and activities at the weekend.

Flights could be brought cheap enough, maybe arrange that if she moves then you reduce the maintenance in order to have money to cover travel . I would however go to Court and get everything set out in writing although if she goes against it It would be difficult to enforce.

duftlys · 29/03/2015 21:31

The fact that you call your x a compulsive liar makes my radar bleep. Perhaps your criticism and judgement is part of what makes Italy seem so attractive.

My x tried to have me ordered back to the UK and failed thankfully. The Judge could see how controlling and selfish he was. So if you spend a lot of money going to court, be certain that (objectively) it is in your daughter's best interests to remain in the UK.

RandomMess · 29/03/2015 21:32

Do you have parental responsibility (can't remember when the law changed), if not you need to sort that as well asap.

duftlys · 29/03/2015 21:36

if his child is 8 then if he's named as father on the bc then he will automatically have it.

zippey · 29/03/2015 21:39

Im sure if a husband was wanting to move the kids abroad, the wife would understandably be unhappy. He loves his children and wants to see them.

AlpacaLypse · 29/03/2015 21:39

Has your ex made any suggestions at all about how contact is going to be maintained?

Original poster
TogerOverAndOut · 29/03/2015 21:44

My ex has not discussed this in any detail so we have not talked about possible contact arrangements. It has been mentioned a few times in passing but I want to know what my rights are just in case.

OP posts:
Starlightbright1 · 29/03/2015 21:45

I would no way be happy for my child to move abroad. OP has stated he see's child every other weekend they sorted out contact and maintenance amicably.

I would be talking to Ex about what she plans, to do to maintain contact....Schooling.

I fail to see why because it is another country it is better for a child

Original poster
TogerOverAndOut · 29/03/2015 21:49

Exactly starlight. My daughter is very anxious and nervous, my ex has already uprooted her and changed her school twice to pursue new relationships. I think she needs stability, she has also told me that she doesn't want to move abroad. I also have another child with my partner and my daughter would be devastated to not see her sibling.

OP posts:
messyisthenewtidy · 29/03/2015 21:51

You can get a free half hour with most solicitors IIRC.

And flights are expensive. Does your ex intend to pay or is she expecting you to. I think you have a good chance as most courts believe in keeping stability for the child.

caroldecker · 29/03/2015 22:18

From here she needs your permission to take the child abroad. If you decline, then she will need to go to court to persuade them it is in the child's best interest.

tribpot · 29/03/2015 22:21

Sounds like an alternative might be for your dd to move in with you whilst her mother goes abroad?

babybarrister · 29/03/2015 22:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LaurieFairyCake · 29/03/2015 22:25

If you see your daughter regularly then obviously the best thing is for that to continue in this country.

There is nothing in Italy to replace the relationship unless you're an arsehole.

Do the prohibited steps order. Get a note added to her passport to make sure she can't be taken out the country without permission being agreed.

I assume that you have PR, pay proper maintenance and have records of this, and see your daughter very regularly?

tracyreader · 30/03/2015 09:16

My understanding is that you don't really have rights, instead your daughter has a right to have a relationship with both her parents. So focus on gathering evidence, from as objective sources as possible, that a move to Italy would not be in your daughters' best interests, eg can your daughters' school provide some evidence about her being nervous and stressed?

Changing schools twice already at age 8, well, unless your ex had some very good reasons, it sounds like that's a starting point for saying that your daughter's education has already been disrupted.

LotusLight · 30/03/2015 10:25
  1. Idally take legal advice as babyb says above.
  2. Write to your ex saying you will not consent to the move and will be applying for a prohibitive steps order unless she agrees not to take your daughter abroad - probably best to do that before wasting money on the order.
  3. Who has your daughter's passport if she has one? Perhaps if your ex will not agree to lodge it with a solicitor ask a court to do so in case she takes the child abroad without consent.

Bottom line though is many many parents every year take a child abroad either without consent or they are allowed to so do not assume this will happen. One solution if they do move and you cannot stop it is you move to Italy near where they live. Not an ideal situation but possible.

Reddragon116 · 30/03/2015 14:19

Lotus the guy has a current partner and child plus no connection to Italy - on what planet except for the super rich would it be possible ?

LotusLight · 30/03/2015 15:37

A planet called loving your child so much you won't live away from it and where people can afford a cheap flight to Italy or a drive where we have rights to work anywhere in the EU. I am saying it is last resort but not worth ruling out.

Spero · 30/03/2015 17:05

You can certainly apply to the court for an order stopping them from going, but whether or not you will succeed will depend on a lot of different factors.

A lot will depend on the motivations behind the move - is it a well thought out plan, have they researched jobs, schools, places to live, what are the plans for keeping up contact with you?

It is not really about 'your rights' - it is about your child's right to a relationship with both biological parents. If you could show the move would cause more harm than good then the court is unlikely to allow it.

But if its a sensible well thought out plan then the court may say that your child's right to a relationship with you can be preserved by contact/Skype etc.

The main case on relocation is still Payne v Payne but there has been a LOT of case law since. But that is a good starting point.

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed24

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