I need help with renting. Am I trapped in this contract?

[amifucked]

I share a house with one other. It's a two bed house but it's common for the living room to be advertised as an extra bedroom, so we viewed and rented a '3 bed flat'.

As our contract came to an end, we looked into renewing the contract with the proviso that we could reinstate the third bedroom and add a third tenant to bring the rent down. This was approved verbally but when I sought written approval (email) I was given a stock answer to "contact X office when you have found someone". I spoke to a different person at the agency each time I rang. We paid the renewal fee. We advertised the room.

We sent our newly found tenant to the agency whereupon they were told that the landlord had never given permission, would not give permission and we would not be allowed a third tenant.

We said if we were not allowed a third person, we could not afford to keep renting. We want out. We were informed that because we had paid the renewal fee, the house was ours for another year whether we liked it or not. Because we had not actually signed the paperwork associated with the renewal (because we don't want the place), we have been put on a rolling contract.

We are now responsible for paying the rent until new tenants are found. We are apparently on a "rolling contract", but it does not seem to be possible to terminate it unless a) new tenants are found, or b) we stay there until the tenancy ends anyway.

Are we on a rolling contract or not? Can we get out of this house?

If you're on a rolling contract you just need to give notice. As you say you haven't signed anything I doubt you are on a contract at all. Give them notice and if they object ask them to produce paperwork entitling them to hold you to a tenancy.

In my previous rental to this we were on a rolling contract, we gave the standard 3 months notice and left.

Hmm. If I remember correctly, your contract is void as you were told that you could get an extra tenant, which was the only reason why you extended the contract legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Promissory+Estoppel. It may be worth your while paying for a solicitors letter (depends on where you go, around £100). You're not on a rolling contract as you renewed it under false pretences, which voids the contract (so I believe, but I may be wrong).

You can give notice on a rolling contract. You shouldn't be liable after your notice period.

The notice period is as per your original I thought, mine is one months notice.

It depends on the contract. A leasehold is different to a statutory tenancy and they both have different notice periods. I'd say it's invalid as the OP relied on the fact that the letting agent said they could have another tenant. A verbal agreement is just as valid as a written one.

What does you original contract say?

We rent to people, and our contract states 12 months tenancy, and rolling contract thereafter with 2 months notice by either party unless a new contract is entered into.

Finding new tenants is neither your responsibility or your concern.

Also, if it was advertised as a 3 bed flat, no permission is required from the landlord to have a 3rd person in, since you seem to be continuing on the original contract. Do you still have the original advert?

Don't sign anything in the interim.

I meant to also say, these terms are not enforceable by the agency. Nor can they hold your deposit if they are trying to enforce these terms. Is your deposit in a deposit scheme?

I have the original listing stating the place was a 3 bed. I was asked for it. I supplied it. They ignored it. The landlord is refusing the addition of a third tenant on the basis that it changes the "status" of the property. I asked what this meant. They said (not verbatim) that a third person would change the "orientation" or "flow" of the property and so he forbade it.

I can't find anything about giving notice in my original tenancy, I'm searching it now. All I've found is that the fee for being released from the tenancy early with more than 3 months remaining is £300+.

I've found this in there though, and no idea what it means:

Surrender of the tenancy by the tenant
5.7
Strictly with the landlord’s or his agents prior written consent and subject to certain conditions that may include the landlord’s reasonable costs associated with the re-letting of the premises, the tenant might be allowed to surrender or give up this tenancy before it could otherwise lawfully be ended.
5.8
If at any time during the said tern the Tenant shall die or become incapacitated with the result that he can no longer reside in the Property, the Tenant or his personal representative shall have the right to terminate the tenancy hereby created by giving to the Landlord or his Agent not less than one months notice in writing.

What would you prefer to do? Rent to the 3rd person, or leave the property?

I think you are in a strong position to do either.

Was it a 12 month contract? When did it end?

Maybe he's thinking that having more than 3 people who are not related turns it into a HMO (house of multiple occupation) so has to have firedoors etc? It will cost him more money.

5.7 means they will release you from the tenancy early if they can re let it.

5.8 means they will release you from the tenancy if you die, but your next of kin needs to give one month's notice (and the milk of human kindness doth run dry).

It was a 12 month contract that ended on the 22nd (iirc).

There's so much ill feeling now that I would rather leave the property than stay with the third tenant included.

What sort of contract was it? What does it say at the top?

england.shelter.org.uk There's info on here, as well as a section about ending a tenancy. You should give them a call

It's an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement.

www.gov.uk/house-in-multiple-occupation-licence Yup, I suspect he's worried about having to register it as a HMO. He'll have to pay for it to be registered, and they will check for fire doors, fire escape, fire alarms, electrics etc. There's a 20k fine for renting out an unlicensed HMO. It's OK to advertise it as a 3 bedroomed house, as it's perfectly legal for it to be a family home and doesn't need to be registered as a HMO if the tenants are related. The problem came about because you're not a family, if this makes sense.

"How an assured shorthold tenancy can be ended
Your tenancy cannot simply run out. It will continue until it is ended properly, either by you or by your landlord. This can happen in one of three ways:

you and your landlord agreeing to end the tenancy (known as surrender)
you serving a valid notice
your landlord taking action to evict you (see below).
Surrender
It is possible for a tenancy to be surrendered at any time. Get your landlord's agreement in writing if possible to avoid problems later.

Notice
If you have a fixed-term tenancy (for example, for one year) you will only be able to give notice during the fixed-term if your tenancy agreement says it is allowed. The length of notice you have to give depends on what your tenancy agreement says.

If your fixed term has ended, your tenancy will become a periodic tenancy (and will run from month to month or week to week). To end it, you have to give one month's notice in writing for a monthly tenancy, 28 days notice for a weekly tenancy, or longer if you pay your rent less often. The notice should end on the first or last day of the period of a tenancy. Once the notice ends, your tenancy ends and you no longer have any right to live in your home.

It's possible to leave on the day your fixed term tenancy ends without giving any notice, but this is not usually advisable. It is best to give your landlord notice if you can, especially if you have paid a deposit and need it back.

Sometimes an assured shorthold tenancy can be periodic from the start, with no specified fixed period. The notice required to end it will be whatever is stated in the tenancy agreement. If the agreement doesn't say anything about notice periods, to end the tenancy you have to give one month's notice in writing for a monthly tenancy, 28 days notice for a weekly tenancy, or longer if you pay your rent less often.
"

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting/private_renting_agreements/assured_shorthold_tenancies

It makes sense, cheers LadySybil. And thank you for that info. So we can write that we wish to terminate on, say, Sept 28th (and we accept that we have to suck up Septs rent charge)?

(on an unrelated note, 4 unrelated people were prev sharing the property and the doors are fire doors. I think it may have been HMO checked once upon a time)

Sorry, my post was processing while MN went down.

So we can pay our rent and give notice on Sept 1st and be out Sept 30th?

(and the milk of human kindness doth run dry)

First smile I've cracked all day! Deposit is in a scheme and my signature won't be going near bloody anything.

It's a calendar month from when you give notice. Yup, that's it. If your rent's due on the 1st and you give notice on the 1st, you move out on the 30th as any later would be a new calendar month. As there's nothing in the contract about notice periods you use the details given on the Shelter web site, so a month. They should be holding your deposit in a tenancy protection scheme, so if they won't give it back to you on the basis that you've not given sufficient notice you can complain to the scheme and get a refund.

If it's already been registered as a HMO I can't see what his issue is TBH

Thank you so, so much.

The person we have been dealing with is not our property manager, it is just some poor sod who happened to make contact with landlord (as it turns out the agency struggle to reach him sometimes). They are quite, um. I don't know. Harshly spoken? There is a definite "I am right you are wrong" air to her when discussing things.

Should I approach my property manager to make her aware that we are going to give notice? I have emailed at random person's request but they aren't too hot at communication at this particular agency.

I'm worried that Sept 30th will sail by and on Oct 1st my guarantor will ring and say "hey, why am I being charged your rent?".

I'm going to contact Shelter tonight, I wouldn't be able to if you hadn't outlined what was what. I owe you big time. Do you like your G&T shaken or stirred?

I think you've had the right answers, but basically as you are on a rolling contract, your notice to the landlord is 1 month to expire on the day your rent is normally paid. Do it in writing and send by recorded delivery.

not email, not text, writing. Served to the address of the landlord on your tenancy (which may be care of the agent).

also confirm that you know where your deposit is and that it is properly protected. Take photos if there is no formal checkout, although the onus is always on the landlord to prove any damages. Wear and tear is not damages.

all transactions regarding lettings must be in writing, regardless of what lazy agents say.

I'm composing a written letter now.

As for when we serve notice, I have seen 3 different recommendations.

a) terminate at end of calendar month, b) terminate on day rent is owed (eg, the 1st), or c) terminate on the day the tenancy was created (eg, the 5th).

Can anyone confirm which is correct?

Also, special, I'm with an agency. Do I send the letter to the agency, the landlord, or both? AFAIK the agency have minimal contact with the landlord and are constantly giving us information on his behalf which later proves to be incorrect/bullshit. I was going to send to both agency and landlord. Is that the right thing to do?