I need help with renting. Am I trapped in this contract?

[amifucked]

I share a house with one other. It's a two bed house but it's common for the living room to be advertised as an extra bedroom, so we viewed and rented a '3 bed flat'.

As our contract came to an end, we looked into renewing the contract with the proviso that we could reinstate the third bedroom and add a third tenant to bring the rent down. This was approved verbally but when I sought written approval (email) I was given a stock answer to "contact X office when you have found someone". I spoke to a different person at the agency each time I rang. We paid the renewal fee. We advertised the room.

We sent our newly found tenant to the agency whereupon they were told that the landlord had never given permission, would not give permission and we would not be allowed a third tenant.

We said if we were not allowed a third person, we could not afford to keep renting. We want out. We were informed that because we had paid the renewal fee, the house was ours for another year whether we liked it or not. Because we had not actually signed the paperwork associated with the renewal (because we don't want the place), we have been put on a rolling contract.

We are now responsible for paying the rent until new tenants are found. We are apparently on a "rolling contract", but it does not seem to be possible to terminate it unless a) new tenants are found, or b) we stay there until the tenancy ends anyway.

Are we on a rolling contract or not? Can we get out of this house?

No, not at all. You have knowledge now, so pass it on if you ever see the need Knowledge is power.

It needs to be in writing, just make sure you keep a copy. Use recorded delivery also incase they claim to have not received it.

You should have had an inventory when you moved in which would have noted any problems (missing handles etc). If they didn't do one and they claim that you've caused damage, this will go in your favour. Take pictures before you hand over the keys, especially of any damage, and make sure it's spotless.

What was your renewal though? My daughter just (using an agent) renewed the assured shorthold on her flat and that commits the tenants for another full year (which they wanted) with a 6 month break clause. Could yours not be in that category?

Also whilst you were given a verbal assurance you could let the third room I bet the contract says nothing verbal counts, no pre contract statements or anything and the entire agreement is this contract. If you had wanted the 3rd bedroom as a condition of renewing it would have helped to have written that into the renewed agreement as an amended term and then it would be more cut and dried.

If you pay on the 7th, you move out on the 6th, which is one calendar month from the 7th. If you pay on the 1st, you leave on the last day of that month, in both cases it's one full calendar month's notice, so technically all apply if you see what I mean. It doesn't matter about C) as tenancy's are often created before the first rent is paid.

If you're not sure if the message will get to the Landlord, send him/her notice too.

LadySybil, this is from the Shelter website:

Make sure that the notice ends on the first or last day of the period of a tenancy.
For example, if your tenancy is monthly and started on the 5th day of the month, the notice you give the landlord should end on the 4th or the 5th.

Which, if it means the c) option from my prev post, means we are stuck in the property until October (bit of a bummer, but will see if landlord agrees to shorter notice period).

Have spoken to Shelter who agree we are not part of a fixed tenancy, we are on a statutory periodic contract which can be terminated with 1 months notice, which is why I'm asking about the definition of a "month" in regards to tenancy stuff.

Shelter says C) - which is normally the same as B). Calendar month irrelevant.

just seen your other post. Your contract is with the LANDLORD and that is who you send notice to. If you don't trust the agency to forward it, ask for the landlord's address. Also tell the landlord (who is paying) that the agency are cowboys. They are telling you complete rubbish.

You can always ask to leave earlier but the landlord doesn't have to agree.

(of course you can LEAVE when you like, the above refers to the day you stop paying.)

I can't see them agreeing to shorter than a month which is the standard, so I'd brace yourself for that but I would be tempted to make a complaint about them leading you to believe you could not give notice. That's not good.

Also read the contracts. Most contracts have a clause called Notice which says who and where a notice should be sent.

No, I know he may not agree to shorter notice, but I will ask anyway. I'm prepared to pay 2 more months rent if need be (but depending on the definition of a month I might only need to pay 1 more).

I have the landlords address, I am sending the letter to him and a copy to my property manager at the agency.

My contract says nothing about notice and Shelter say it's not applicable anyway since I'm no longer on fixed term. They say I've automatically gone on to statutory periodic contract which equals 1 months notice.

I've always given one calendar month under a statutory periodic contract. I pay on the 1st, move out on the last day of that month, so 30/31st. If I move in on the 12th, I move out on the 11th. If I move in on the 12th and move out on the 12th, I've started a new month I'm liable for the month's rent, IYSWIM. It all depends on when you moved in and paid your rent. If you signed the contract on the 31st, paid your rent on the 31st and moved in on the 1st, you'd have to give notice on the 31st, this is what this means. If you signed the contract on the 31st, paid your first month's rent on the 2nd and moved in on the 3rd, then you'd move out on the 1st as your rent only covers you from the 2nd to the 1st the following month.

The landlord commits a criminal offence if he lets you use it as an HMO and it's not licensed. Three people who are in a family is fine, 3 single people aren't.

We pay rent on the first of each month but our tenancy was created on the 22nd, so our first months rent in the place was higher to account for that extra week and a bit.

Appreciate that Phaedra, and I understand that now, but we were never told the reason for no, we were just told no.

You should only be paying rent from when you received the keys, amifucked. If you couldn't move in until the 1st, you shouldn't have had to pay the extra week's rent.

The agency sound like cowboys. Have you checked that your deposit is in a tenancy deposit scheme?

as an aside, 3 people does not necessarily constitute a house in multiple occupation - 5 is the minimum where it is definitely a HMO. 3 COULD be an HMO, depending on the area.

OP - when this is all sorted, I urge you to write to the landlord telling him of the problems with the agency. Might dissuade him from using them again.

I think I will special. They are renowned for hidden fees and idiocy, but unfortunately we didn't have the luxury of choice when taking out the initial contract and so we got stuck with them.

In which case your rental-periods run from the first to the last day of each month. Your notice letter needs to be with the landlord before the 31st of this month to leave on or by the 30th of September.

I don't know why you didn't just go ahead and find a third person and have them pay their rent direct to you. Normally a landlord wouldn't really care how many people are in the property as long as the full rent is being paid in full and on time. The rental agreement is in two names, so he could probably argue quite successfully that it wasn't an HMO as it wasn't let as such.

I don't know why you didn't just go ahead and find a third person and have them pay their rent direct to you.

We wish we bloody had. We were worried it would count as subletting if it ever came to light and that we would be bolleauxed for it.

Can you not contact the landlord directly, tell him all about the shoddy agency and make him an offer? If you're good tenants who look after the house, pay on time etc then it would work out cheaper for him to stop dealing with the agency. You could negotiate a discount as he's no longer having to pay them.

We've had enough tbh LadySybil, we just want out. He's loaded so I doubt he'd accept. He has another property which has been on the market since May, it's sat there because he's refused to reduce the rent and can afford to sit on it.

#facepalm

Check what I said about the rent. Even though you signed on the 22nd, if you couldn't move in right away then you've been overcharged. You also need to check whether your deposit is in a scheme. You can do this yourself www.tds.gb.com

I mentioned upthread that our deposit is in a scheme. Just checked and the deposit is protected with mydeposit.co.uk

We signed on the 22nd. Moved in on the 22nd. Paid first rent including extra money for the last week of August on 1st Sept 2013. Paid rent on first of every month thereafter.

Can I serve notice for 30th of Sept? It would be ideal.

Ah, sorry I missed that bit (I'm trying to multi task but it's not working!). That's all good. You should be able to serve notice on the 30th, you could do it this month if you wanted and move out at the end of September.