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Original poster

Death without a will and co habitation

231 replies

RonaldMcDonald · 25/08/2014 22:58

What happens nowadays if you die without having made a will and you were co habiting?
This has happened to my friend.
He has made financial provision for his children but has made no new will since he started to co habit with his new girlfriend
She says that she gets 2/3s of the money and the children the rest split between them
Sounds a bit unfair as his kids are young

Any ideas? She has called the insurance co to tell them she is the next of kin.
Help if poss would be v gratefully received
Ta

OP posts:
IDontDoIroning · 26/08/2014 10:06

Late not Kate

SweetsForMySweet · 26/08/2014 10:09

If your friend was not legally married to the deceased and was not named in the will. She cannot just name herself as a beneficiary when the man died. It is unlikely that she will benefit from the life policy either unless named on the policy prior to the death by the deceased. Living together without a legal current will gives her no legal rights to his estate. Your friend should get legal advice but be prepared to hear that his ex wife could be the main beneficiary. It may also depends on the law about inheritance where he lived

DontstepontheMomeRaths · 26/08/2014 10:16

I note you say new girlfriend? She sounds greedy. She's in for a shock. The old will is valid still as others said. She sounds like she doesn't have a clue how it all works.

IDontDoIroning · 26/08/2014 10:20

Also if the children are minors they can make a claim on the estate as his dependants and I'm sure would get more than 1/6 each.

prh47bridge · 26/08/2014 10:57

Just to clarify the new girlfriend may be able to make a claim against his estate if she was dependent on him but she has no automatic right to inherit anything. She is also wrong about changes to the law. There has been no "cohabitation bill" or any other change to the law that gives her the same rights as a wife.

In the absence of any new will the "old will" is still valid and, as you are named on that will as an executor, you are indeed one of the executors. She is not. You and your fellow executors need to get control of this situation and make sure the estate is distributed in accordance with the existing will.

Note that if he was married to his ex she cannot act as an executor even if she is named as one in the will and any gift to her should be dealt with as if she died on the date the divorce became absolute.

fairgroundsnack · 26/08/2014 11:21

As an executor you need to get legal advice, otherwise you could be liable in the future for a claim by the deceased's children for breach of trust - ie that you didn't execute the will properly. If you know who the solicitors were who made the will, then get in touch with them ASAP and explain what is happening. You as executors will apply for probate and once this is granted you will be able to act to distribute the deceased's assets in accordance with the will.

The life policy will either have been written into trust, in which case the beneficiaries will be named and will be directly entitled to the proceeds, or it will not be in which case it forms part of the estate to be dealt with by the executors.

Get a solicitor involved NOW. The costs of this will be reclaimable from the estate.

Greengrow · 26/08/2014 11:43

All the advice here is right. The girl friend seems to be trying to rob his children from his first marriage unlawfully. His old will in favour of the previous girl friend and his children stands. Obviously the girl friend keeps her own house which is in her name.

CeliaBowen · 26/08/2014 16:52

The others above are right.

If no new will has been made then the old one stands.

If you are named as an executor, you need to get legal advice. Please speak to a solicitor. The costs will be born by the estate, but hopefully will not run to much as once the legal situation has been made clear, it should be fairly straightforward to sort out.

PiratePanda · 26/08/2014 21:20

OMG the GF seems to be breaking the law all over the place.

There is no such thing as the "new cohabitation law" and she is thus not entitled to anything. She is NOT next of kin - his parents probably are if living. She is definitely not executor.

The old will is not superseded; it is THE will and it stands.

YOU are therefore legally the executor, and you now need to go to a solicitor and take legal advice.

The ExW needs to take legal steps to protect her DCs inheritance.

I'm pretty shocked TBH.

Itsfab · 26/08/2014 21:30

I think as executor OP you are responsible for making sure the will is followed along with solicitors.

Original poster
RonaldMcDonald · 26/08/2014 23:15

Thanks all

Clarified today that there is no new will
The old will does stand
Spoke to the solicitors and then insurance co

Have spoken to her to discuss. Her conversation was very very spiteful and angry
However...I understand that she is upset and shocked
She has just called back and is now claiming that he was supporting her
She says she will be in touch via her solicitor as the lion share of his estate should be hers as his 'wife'

It was actually very aggressive and very very upsetting
I do see that it must have been difficult for her though
We will see

OP posts:
DontstepontheMomeRaths · 26/08/2014 23:17

When you say 'wife' you mean the new gf. I'm getting confused.

iK8 · 26/08/2014 23:22

In some ways it might make it easier if she's unpleasant about it because it will lessen any guilt.

I imagine it must be terribly hard to lose your partner and it would be sympathetic and generous to allow her to keep items that might have significant sentimental value for her such as his watch and it's arguably not worth fighting over shared purchases he made with her unless it's something significant like a car.

She will have a job to prove her dependence is he was living in her house.

However, if her interest is pretty much just the cash you will know what you're dealing with.

Good luck with it all. You have been a good friend.

Yambabe · 26/08/2014 23:25

But she wasn't his "wife".

If he'd wanted her to inherit he could have married her or made a new will. That he chose not to do either is telling.

Legally she has no claim to anything of his that wasn't already jointly owned with her or gifted to her before he died.

What a mess Sad

OldLadyKnowsSomething · 26/08/2014 23:33

She sounds like a nasty piece of work, shocked or not. (And tbh, if she was actually in shock she wouldn't have been able to be so calculatedly callous towards the dc.) She is/was not his "wife" and has no dependent dc with him. It's an unwise claim to say he was "supporting her", as, if this included paying her mortgage, that might mean his estate has an interest in her house... I hope when she gets herself a lawyer the truth of the matter is spelled out to her.

I can understand that she's upset, of course she is; but that's not an excuse for trying to steal from his dc, and that's what she's trying to do.

Nessalina · 26/08/2014 23:37

God what an awful situation!
You've done the right thing OP, well done for getting the wheels in motion. I can't believe she'd think that having a man living with her made her entitled to his estate before his kids! Shock It's hard to be sympathetic when someone's been that brazen Confused
Hope it all gets resolved ok.

zipzap · 27/08/2014 00:05

I reckon the sentimental things like his watch should go to his dc - if she gets something sentimental it should be something along the lines of a photo of the pair of them together.

My ddad died when I was in my 20s and things like his watch and his special cufflinks were nice things to have as I knew he loved them. I also have a couple of his old jumpers that I won't throw away just because I know they were his, even though I wouldn't ever wear them and nor would dh. DH has got a load of his ties that dmum dumped on gave him as she didn't want to throw them away. It was fine by dh - he rarely has to wear ties, maybe once or twice a year, so to have a new set meant he hasn't had to buy any new ones for ages! But they don't have the same sentimental value as the other bits I have of his.

I would definitely get the children to choose which of his things they would like to keep - maybe with a bit of prompting from their mum about what was important to their dad when she knew him, so that they have something of his. And then let his girlfriend choose a couple of things!

It will also be interesting to see if the estate should be claiming half of all the goods that they jointly purchased... Don't see why not if girlfriend is being so nasty about everything; might make her realise how much she has to lose and would be a bargaining chip if one is needed that you wouldn't care too much about but would actually cost her quite a lot if she had to pay even half of second hand value of things to the estate or give half the items to the estate and then rebuy them for herself.

And I like the fact that if she claims he was supporting her then you potentially have a claim on a chunk of the house. Can you tell I'm routing for your friend and her dc - whilst it is horrible to lose your partner, if he hadn't got around to changing anything to be left to her, and she has been deliberately trying to take the money that's not hers, she deserves all she gets quite frankly. Are you going to get the police involved for potential fraud just to frighten her even more? (no idea if that is even possible if she hasn't actually taken any of the money at the moment. or has she?) Are you going to be able to go in and take an inventory of all his things before she spirits any of them away? How will you know what is his or hers or theirs? DOn't envy you that task!

mrsmaturin · 27/08/2014 00:13

She'll struggle to show he was supporting her when it's a relatively new relationship and he moved in to her house........
Bollocks to her being 'shocked'. It's common knowledge that if there's a Will then that supercedes anything else. Is she claiming she didn't know there was a Will at all? She was quick enough to get on the phone to the insurers to lodge a claim for the cash wasn't she? Hmm

OP - you need to be very clear, calm and firm. This man appointed you to protect the interests of his dependants. You have a legal and a moral duty to do what he wrote he wanted. Ignore any spite, anger, pleas or nonsense and do what you are legally mandated to do. Good luck.

Original poster
RonaldMcDonald · 27/08/2014 00:49

Thanks - you have all been brilliant
I'm a bit...well I don't know really

Struggling really. She is saying that he and she considered themselves married and if he had realised the implications he would have changed the will or married her
I have said this might all very well be true but ultimately it isn't for me to speak on his behalf in anyway other than through his written will
Told her that it absolutely isn't personal. It isn't.

I do think that lots of people believe the 'commonlaw wife' ideal and are left scuppered

OP posts:
sleepyhead · 27/08/2014 00:56

I think you've just got to hang on to the fact that there's nothing you can do for her. The process will happen according to law - as you say, it's really not personal.

I have to say though, her pre-emptive strike was utterly cynical. Really don't waste too much emotion on her.

OldLadyKnowsSomething · 27/08/2014 01:15

Ronald, you're obviously a lovely, honest, and moral person; that may be why he chose you as an executor.

But he and his bereaved dp are/were both grown adults, in his case old enough to have an ex and a couple of young dc, and with enough nous to know he needed to have a will to protect those dc, in her case old enough and with enough nous to have her own house, in her own name, and now to be claiming he supported her.

So both aware of the "implications" and at the end of the day, they were not married, and he did not change his will.

I agree, more cohabiting people need to understand the law.

Coolas · 27/08/2014 01:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SierpinskiNumber · 27/08/2014 01:33

What a difficult situation . I hope it all works out for everyone.

lunar1 · 27/08/2014 02:07

I can't believe someone would effectively try to steel money from children. She sounds a nasty piece of work.

GruffalosGirl · 27/08/2014 06:54

If the estate is large enough to need to go to probate then you can contact the probate registry and put a caveat on the estate, this is a legal stop that will prevent her getting a grant without the issues being resolved. It costs £20 and it might be worth contacting them to discuss it. If she applies for a grant and says she is his wife and there's no will she may get one otherwise.

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