Death without a will and co habitation

[RonaldMcDonald]

What happens nowadays if you die without having made a will and you were co habiting?
This has happened to my friend.
He has made financial provision for his children but has made no new will since he started to co habit with his new girlfriend
She says that she gets 2/3s of the money and the children the rest split between them
Sounds a bit unfair as his kids are young

Any ideas? She has called the insurance co to tell them she is the next of kin.
Help if poss would be v gratefully received
Ta

Co habitation does not confer the same rights as marriage.
I think that your friend needs to speak to a solicitor about protecting her children's inheritance.

Does she know there is a will? Sounds like she'll get a nasty surprise. Better she finds out now.

The old will should stand if no new will. As your friend and her children are the beneficiaries she should contact the insurance company ASAP because it will be much harder (or impossible) to get the money back from the girlfriend later. She needs to tell them she has the will and if the estate is not small she should contact the executor to apply for probate.

Did he have any assets when he died? Property, savings, jewellery, a car etc? He may have also had cover with his bank account, credit cards or loan agreements depending on the circumstances of his death.

For small estates (it varies but usually less than £15k or £25k depending on the bank) most banks and building societies will close an account and pay the money out asking for a small estates indemnity to be completed. In theory they should ask for evidence that the person they pay the money to is entitled to it either via the rules of intestacy or as the beneficiary of a will but they really don't need much evidence at all.

Any joint accounts usually become the property of the surviving account holder.

Your friend should also contact the banks to advise that he has died (she may need to send a copy of the death certificate but she could order one) and that she and her children are the beneficiaries in his will.

If you friend feels unable to accept the money for herself she and the other beneficiaries can complete a deed of variation where she gives her share to her children.

She's appointed herself executor? PMSL. She'll be in for a shock! She cannot legally do that. She's not and never was legally the deceased's next of kin.

New partner has said the cohabitation bill means that she has full rights as a wife
Therefore is executor doesn't need a will can amend policy beneficiaries etc
Is acting magnanimously toward his kids iho

Ex partner is shocked by it all
We all are and are a bit blind to the new laws ( shamefully as some of us did law many moons ago )

Umm that's not been written into law has it?

The new cohabitation bill is only in the very early stages of being debated in parliament and the Lords - it has certainly not been passed or taken effect yet, so if she is basing her ideas on that she is going to be disappointed.

Has the ex got legal cover on her house or car insurance? A quick call to them should at least give her some basic info but from what you've put on here, then it sounds like she is bullshitting her way into taking your dc's inheritance.

Can your friend contact everybody that she can think of to say that there is a will, your dc are the beneficiaries, the girlfriend has not produced a new will and she is not named as executor, she is merely the girlfriend and as such doesn't have the authority to be doing any of this.

The first people to contact would be the solicitor that the girlfriend is using and the insurance company - they certainly shouldn't be changing the beneficiary on an insurance policy on the basis of a phone call!!!

I wonder if the girlfriend is thinking of marriage - I believe that invalidates any previous wills made (unless something is explicitly mentioned about it in the will but I'm not sure about that). however I don't think that wills are made invalid when a couple divorces, just bits that involve the ex wife. And if the couple weren't ever married then even those bits won't change. There's an article on [[http://www.netlawman.co.uk/ia/will-effect-marriage-divorce the effects of marriage and divorce on wills] that has more useful info.

I hope your friend manages to at least put a stop to the girlfriend's efforts so she can't take the money and run!

Did the ex support the girlfriend in any way? if he was only contributing towards day to day living expenses, rent, food, etc if he was living in her house rather than her not working and him paying for everything, then if he has young children I reckon that your friend has a very strong argument that everything - or at least a very significant proportion of his estate - should go to the children. And given that his will left everything equally to her and the children (1/3 each?) then the next negotiating point would be to leave it 1/3 to her and 1/3 each to the children - or even her share split with you to contribute towards the expenses of bringing up the children. if the ex is working (no idea if she is!) then surely she will be able to continue working and supporting herself - she doesn't have any dependents like the ex does!

fingers crossed for your friend...

services.parliament.uk/bills/2013-14/cohabitationrights.html Have had a swift google of "cohabitation bill", it basically amounts to a suggestion from the House of Lords and is nowhere near being actual law.

As it stands, the deceased did have a will, in which he named his ex and dc, the gf gets absolutely nothing. Gf is most certainly not executor.

How will ex p find out if he made a new will

It seems clear from convos that new partner is acting as wife ( although co habitee ) but how will she sort this out?

Speak to the solicitor of old will?
Get old executor to contact new partner

I am one of the old executors.
I feel sick

She doesn't need to find out. It would be up to the other party to find and produce a newer will. She could check with the Probate Service or the deceased's solicitor if they are holding a copy but other than that what else could she reasonably do?

I've literally no idea

There should be no bad feeling or situations like this but I think this will end horribly
Perhaps ex p will make variation of her payment to new partner meaning kids get 3/4 and new p 1/4?
Depends what solicitor advises I suppose.

I'll show thread to ex p. Ask to speak to old solicitor to advise of friends death and discuss from there
Thanks

Sounds a good plan.

Remember the law is there to protect the children and that if he had wanted the girlfriend to inherit he would have either married her or changed his will. Doing everything by the letter of the law absolves you of any responsibility for the situation.

I'd also bear in mind that the girlfriend was quite prepared to deprive his children of their inheritance.

I don't see why exP should make any variation in favour of new gf, if the deceased wanted this he could/should have changed his will. Were "new" gf and he together long? Was she in any way finacially dependant on him?

Sounds like the gf is totally bullshitting here. She's not next of kin, and no eat would the insurance company have placed her on the policy as such just on her say so.

I recently changed who the recipient of life insurance was due to divorce it was definitely not as easy as a phone call. It required a deed of of trust a legal document signed and witnessed by several parties and costing £500. So I would suspect she is not telling the truth about that either.

Do try to remember the new partner is trying to take the money from the children with absolutely no basis to do so.

If the will the ex has is indeed his final one which it appears to be, and you are named as executor it is YOUR responsibility to ensure the estate is distributed as per the will, so you should be contacting the insurance company, applying for probate etc.

You have many serious responsibilities as an executor, as titchy says. I urge you to move quickly to get things in hand. If you ignore the role you agreed to you can be held personally financially responsible for the consequences. There's a useful summary here .

You (and any co-executors) should be controlling everything at this stage, except any joint bank accounts he had with his new partner. If the new partner disagrees, she will need to produce a more recent will, and I'd suggest that if this is the case you should take legal advice to ensure that she's not deceiving you.

Surely as executor of his will (note: not his "old will" as you have no reason to believe that a new one exists) you are personally responsible for making sure that his wishes are carried out accordingly.

You can't just sit on this. It's not the exgfs responsibility to sort out, or the new gf, it's yours. Get legal advice today.

'Perhaps ex p will make variation of her payment to new partner meaning kids get 3/4 and new p 1/4?'

Genuine question. XP is going forward dealing with two bereaved DC. Their material needs are only part of their current needs, but surely not a part that can be ignored. And part of their future needs too - as Daddy won't be there to help pay for university or whatever. XP, as guardian for the DC may also be included as they're a kind of 'family' unit now.

They were left that money. If the deceased had wanted new GF to inherit, he'd have made a new will in her favour, or would have married her. He did neither, instead appearing to want to support his family as he did things like continue an insurance policy in their favour.

I was thinking about this - before you show your hand to her and say that actually you have the will, do you have it in writing anywhere from her that she appointed herself executor and that there was no will made after splitting up with the ex partner, or is it all from phone conversations?

If it is just phone conversations then it might be worth your friend sending a simple email to her along the lines of 'just want to confirm our recent conversations about ex-p's estate so I can explain it to the children and make sure I have my facts correct. You believe that there is no will, that ex died intestate and you have appointed yourself executor. You are going to give yourself 2/3 of ex's estate and give his children, A & B, 1/6 of his estate each. You have contacted xx insurance company to notify them that the next of kin details should be changed to you and have informed them of the percentages due to each beneficiary'. If she knows about the other will then add a sentence along the lines of 'you believe that the will that ex made on [date] is no longer valid since he started to cohabit with you from [date] due to the new cohabitation laws.'

Wrap it up with 'please can you confirm that I have understood everything correctly? Please can you confirm the details of the solicitor dealing with this for my records. And on a personal note, with regard to the effects of my ex, I would be very grateful if you could ensure that both his children have some of his personal things to have - losing their father so young I believe that having something tangible that belonged to him will help to provide them with comfort and a sense of connection to him both now and through the years as they grow up.

Then when she replies you will have written proof that she thinks there is no will and the dodgy way she has gone about trying to screw your friend's children from their rightful inheritance. If she miraculously produces a different will further down the line, you will have good reason to challenge it if you have it in writing that she thinks he died intestate.

You also have enough to challenge the solicitor and the insurance company as they shouldn't have let her get anywhere near this far along the line if she had said he died intestate and then said she was the executor and then said about children - alarm bells should have been ringing all over the place that everything should have gone to his dc.

Just out of interest, did the ex die unexpectedly or did he have a terminal disease so knew he had to get his paperwork in order? Particularly if it was the latter, if there is no other will, that should be a good reason to argue the old one stands. And even if not, surely if you were a good enough friend to be an executor he would have told you if he ws going to change things or remove you as executor in order to prevent precisely this happening.

Oh and when I suggested the ex writing that letter to the girlfriend, I know there are no cohabitation laws or that she shouldn't be able to just name herself as executor - I was just trying to put in everything the girlfriend said so she couldn't deny anything later and to effectively give her enough rope to hang herself from. That letter isn't meant to point out her mistakes, it's just to get proof of what she is doing in writing.

I'm another one that thinks that all the money should go to your dc and nothing for her, particularly given the way that she has effectively tried to steal your dc's inheritance from them.

I also think your d. Should have all his personal effects - if your friend is feeling magnanimous then maybe let her have something to remember him by but I'd make sure the dc got all the valuable or sentimental stuff they wanted first!

She is entitled to nothing if he dies intestate as it would all go to his children - unless he signed a death in service agreement with is pension provider.

Our pension provider asked us to do this as they said that if you do they can pay out without the money going to the estate.
However she can't do this without his permission (and obviously now he's dead) and I can't see how a solicitor or pension company would disinherit his legal heirs
So I wonder if she's trying to pull a fast one by telling pension company he had no children or no will.
Please act to stop her possibly stealing these children's inheritance it's hard enough drowning up without a father but if they had this money at least it would go towards helping them later on in life.

She could have applied for letters of administration which is what happens when someone dies intestate. However she should then distribute any estate according to intestacy law which is all to the dc.
So she may be trying to pull a fast one by applying for the letters of administration and by giving the dc something be just fobbing them off.

Perhaps she feels entitled to something but if it hasn't been a long relationship and they weren't married then that's tough. And anyway she's an adult with her own house not a child with nothing and no dad.

Please come forward with the will it will be too Kate once she's got her hands on it and spent it.