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Splitting up and being entitled to half of everything

29 replies

horseynewmum · 31/07/2013 20:54

I'm really stuck between a hard place and a rock at the moment. I'm currently splitting up from husband and we have one child. We've been married 3 yrs and brought our house 18months before that. I'm currently waiting for him to buy me out but he won't give me half he says he put in the most money so he should have the biggest percentage. Also he wont move out. I need the money so I can say I have some capital to go into rented cause atm no landlord will touch me cause I work part-time and be a single mum.
I've seeked legal advice but I cant afford to fight him and take him to court. He has offered me 30% which is more then what I put in. He has said if I fight he won't see DC and then I cant work due to childcare.
What do I do or would you do

OP posts:
babybarrister · 31/07/2013 21:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

horseynewmum · 31/07/2013 21:36

I have seeked legal advice and this is what I have been told that I should take him to court to fight for 50% but I honestly cant afford to go down the court route I have very limited funds that I need to use on putting a roof over DC head. Also he has made it very clear he wont leave this house or sell and tbh I have no fight left just want go

OP posts:
deleted203 · 31/07/2013 21:40

I'm not a solicitor - but I wouldn't imagine that you would be entitled to half. 30% for a 3 year marriage and one child - if it is more than you put in - sounds a fair offer, TBH.

It's roughly what I received of our joint assets after 14 years of marriage and with 3 children.

Chubfuddler · 31/07/2013 21:48

Whether he sees your child or not (what an utter bell end he must be to say that) he will have to pay maintenance - 15% of net earnings for one child. And if you work you will probably get working tax credit and child tax credit too - taken together mine cover my child care costs. The letting a agent I found my rental through took tax credits into account when calculating the affordability of my house for me. I don't see why no one will touch you as a tenant just because you work part time and have a child. I had no problem.

If he's going to buy you out then I can see why he doesn't want to move out, he'll only have to move in again. Would he act as guarantor for you in a rental if needed? If he wants you out of the marital home he may well be prepared to agree.

Collaborate · 01/08/2013 05:43

What sowornout says demonstrates the need to seek legal advice. The starting off point for the marital home is a 50/50 split, and that comes from the Supreme Court. The housing needs of your child are also a priority, no matter how short the marriage.
You can't afford to take no legal advice and get properly represented.

HeliumHeart · 01/08/2013 08:15

I'm not a lawyer but awash with legal advice after being six months into my divorce, and agree with Collaborate - sowornout your advice is nothing like what I've been told. I'm divorcing after a four year marriage (although cohabited for five years prior to marriage which I've been told counts too) and also contributed nothing financially to the marital home. I'm a SAHM and have been told I would be entitled to 50% of assets as a starting point, probably more because of the need to house the children and the difference in our future earning capacities.

Please seek legal advice and listen to the experts on here! Wink

RedHelenB · 01/08/2013 09:56

I'd be a bit crafty - let him buy you out & start over but DON'T get it signed off by a court. That way you could still go back for me if it transpires he doesn't see his child or your financial circumstances change. If he is insisting on it being made legal a judge could well order him to be more generous givn that you are the primary carer.

Joy5 · 02/08/2013 12:25

Why don't you defend yourself in court? Ask for help on MNs, know its scary, i think i'm on verge of my ex filing court papers, because i won't agree his totally unreasonable offers.

How much money he put in won't count, if you were married its a joint assest, if you work tax credits will help with the child care costs.

Its terrible theres no legal aid availiable anymore, to help parents in our position who are threatened by our exes, who don't want to pay to keep a roof over their families heads, or expect the state to do it for them, while they keep their salaries for themselves.

i've been in this position for 18 months, ex stopped mediation they wound't agree to his demands, looks like the solicior negotiations are coming to an end because they too wont accept his demands, but i can't afford much more legal help so i'll be defending myself if it happens.

My solicitor has been really good, let me pay monthly, and charge me for an hour when really i saw her for 90 minutes, but i only earn 8k, i can't afford to keep paying her.

Being a SAHM counts a lot, and future earning power, and the starting point for sorting things out is 50-50, no matter what your ex says. They all say things, they really believe they can influence things to go their way, its not easy but the law is on your side, to make sure you and your family have a home.

McKenzie13 · 03/08/2013 19:18

Hi horseynewmum,

I assist people in court as a McKenzie Friend. I deal with contact and finance issues. You can represent yourself. A lot of it is commonsense.

In your case, as I've said in other posts on ancillary relief, there is no magical formula and everything is negotiable. Once everything has been disclosed and you're playing with a "Full deck of cards" so to speak, then equitable negotiations can begin.

Rule of thumb: Money follows the children. They come first if they are under 18. This will impact money and housing issues. You don't state in your post what you are looking for but I'm guessing that your child is pretty young (hence childcare).

Other factors that the court will take into account is the length of the marriage; the age of the parties; the age of the child/ren; parties' future and current needs; child/ren's current and future needs. occupation etc.

I am assuming also that you're the primary carer here too. This will mean that your needs will be greater than his. I would need more info from you to give you a full and accurate picture.

What I would say to you is that it sounds like your ex is trying to bully you into agreeing something. Keep your cool and stick things out to get the best deal for your child. Don't agree or feel bullied simply because he's represented and you're not.

Happy to help.

perfectstorm · 03/08/2013 21:57

The fact he's making threats shows he's well aware he is offering way below what he should, IMO.

You can represent yourself. You could post here asking for advice in how, if you've had legal advice on what might be fair. What do you have to lose? If you represent yourself, then the judge will decide. If you don't take this to court, then your ex will decide. Which of the two do you think is most likely to put your child's interests first?

This book is 29 quid. I think it would be a good investment, myself.

MOSagain · 03/08/2013 23:23

Oh Christ, the Jeremy Kyle brigade have been here. Ignore them and listen to babybarrister and collaborate, both very experienced family lawyers.

perfectstorm · 05/08/2013 04:07

MOS of course they're right, but if she won't get legal advice (and she seems fairly adamant on that) isn't her self-repping better than just allowing him to do what the hell he wants? At least she can put things to a judge, rather than just accepting her ex's decisions.

Lawyers cost money. Lots of it. Not everyone has that money, and if things reach court then sometimes decent representation costs more than the assets. (Unless things have undergone revolutionary changes for the cheaper since Piglowska v Piglowski, anyway, which I highly doubt.) Hence Lucy Reed's book. Of course a lifeboat is better than a buoy, but sometimes the latter is all people can afford.

Your tone is pretty disgraceful, incidentally. I do hope you aren't anyone's lawyer either, with a grip on the financial realities of most people's lives that sounds quite that tenuous.

MOSagain · 05/08/2013 06:49

Sorry but please explain where I have said she shouldn't self rep?
My comment was aimed at people who post on here that clearly have no legal knowledge or experience and on occasions, their 'advice' could be extremely harmful to the OP.

Your tone is rather offensive

horseynewmum · 05/08/2013 14:19

Hi I HAVE had legal advice and she has told me the amount he has offered me is wrong and I should fight for 50%. The thing is I haven't got the money or the mental strength to fight. We currently still living under the same roof as I'm struggling to find rented accomendation on a very low wage of 16hrs a week.
My daughter is 14months and I am her main carer. I'm currently having to ask my mum and his mum for child care to work as he finds he hard to look after his daughter because it affects his social time. he does look after her while I'm working two weekends a month but I have to get her up before work and soon as get home I take over again.
We have been married 3 yrs this month

OP posts:
Joy5 · 05/08/2013 18:25

Hi
I'm on a low income too (8k), but trying hard to get more hours and training for a better paid job.
You might not have the mental strength to fight now, but you will, and you don't have to start the legal stage, you can wait for your ex too. Mediation will be suggested first too now, thats cheaper and hopefully you can reach an agreement there. We tried it, but they wouldn't agree to my exes offers which were so low, so he stopped mediation, we're now in the legal stages but hes still offering way below what we're entitled too, so it looks like we're heading for a court case. I can't afford it, so i'll be self representating and investigating help from Mckenzie friends.

If i were you, i wouldn't worry too much about the legal side yet. Concentrate on sorting yourself and your daughter out. Could you move in with your parents on a temporary basis, until an agreement is reached about the house? Its not ideal but you'd be able to claim tax credits etc and once you get that you can claim for child care too. You're working the minimum number of hours to claim tax credits too, while you're daugther is so young couldn't you stay with her and not increase your working hours.

My ex stilled lived with us for months after telling me our marriage was over, its hell, wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Hope you manage to sort things out soon x

perfectstorm · 05/08/2013 23:16

MOS, telling the OP that everyone but two named posters are "the Jeremy Kyle brigade" and to ignore them, in a post beginning, "Oh Christ" is not offensive?

OP, I hate to say this, but this isn't really about you now - it's about your child. She will suffer if you are impoverished, hence the law's focus on a fair share of the family money following the children, and he has made it extremely apparent that he can't be relied upon to think about her best interests. He obviously knows that he can bully you into giving up on money your child will need in the future, and he's selfish enough to want to do that so he can live more comfortably at everyone else's cost.

The simple reality is that a court will look very askance at anyone refusing to go to mediation, and his solicitor will tell him as much. He's relying on you being too exhausted and miserable to tell him where to stick his lousy offer. If you've had legal advice, then the simplest and cheapest thing to do is to email him, stating that you intend to attend mediation to resolve the financial impasse and that you therefore need him to provide dates that would suit him so you can move forward. Judges don't like it when people refuse mediation for no reason, because it's the lowest-cost and lowest-conflict way of moving forward. He won't be able to bully you in mediation, because the mediator will be there. And apart from anything else, emailing him in that way would show him you mean business.

Approach it in bite sized pieces - don't think too far ahead. Email him to agree to mediation. Don't think past that email. If he agrees, then you can work on what you need to achieve in mediation. If he doesn't agree, start court proceedings... but just think of it as paperwork to complete, don't think beyond that stage until you need to. Just don't think too many steps ahead, because I suspect it's the whole thing that is making you feel so overwhelmed - look at it as one stage at a time, don't think past the step you need to do in the here and now. The fact is that your situation is quite simple, and judges will see it all the time. The idea of COURT is really scary, but the reality is, a family court is just a bunch of people whose job is to try to get a fair outcome for everyone, as far as they can. That's what they are there for - to help people in your sort of situation. You don't need to do any "fighting" because from what you've said here, your situation isn't complicated, and the decision on outcome is the judge's. You could very well end up with better than 50% - he could be told you can stay in the house until your child leaves full-time school, and only then can he get his 50% out, for example. There are a lot of things that could happen to your advantage, if you just take a deep breath and take this one step at a time. You just need to be honest and explain. And the sooner you send that email about mediation, the closer you are to it all being over and done with.

Do you have a friend or relative who is good at paperwork type stuff, academic? Because there's nothing to stop you asking them to take over the practical side. You'd have to go to mediation, and if things got to that court, but if say your Mum or Dad are willing and able, then just get them to do the practical side for you.

There are ways around this feeling so overwhelming. Really, there are. Your baby won't always be this small and things won't always feel this bleak, and the sooner you get your money and get rid of him, the sooner the dark cloud will lift.

And as to his saying he won't look after her every other weekend unless you give him 20% of the assets... what guarantee do you have that he'll keep doing it, even if you do? I do hope you've contacted the CSA already. That money should be going into your account.

Hang on in there. This will be one of the worst times of your life, but in a year, you'll be looking back from a far better place. Are you posting on the relationships thread? Legal is the place for legal advice, but they are invaluable for moral support, IMO. I think you need both.

perfectstorm · 05/08/2013 23:18

Joy's post is great, sorry, hadn't refreshed since starting mine earlier today.

Mendi · 05/08/2013 23:25

I think MOS was referring to the poster up thread who suggested 30% would be a fair estimate. Clearly a totally arbitrary figure based on nothing in particular and certainly not The Law.

I thought the tone of your post was rather dismissive and insulting too to be fair. Collaborate, Mumblechum and MOS are a wealth of qualified family law information and quite right to speak clearly when other unqualified voices chip in with the wrong advice.

perfectstorm · 05/08/2013 23:35

Brigade is a plural term, not singular - hence the post was offensive.

I'm well aware of the dangers of offering legal advice from a position of ignorance and was relieved to see that poster corrected - I've been relieved to see Mumblechum step in on relationship threads to do likewise, because someone vulnerable doesn't need to be mislead. I only have an LLB and a couple of LLMs, which teach you mainly that you don't know anything useful. When I need legal advice, I turn to friends qualified to give it. I certainly don't trust my own outdated, half-remembered teaching. But much of the advice subsequently was practical - how to manage when you just can't afford legal representation - and to dismiss that too, which the clear statement did, seemed unnecessarily rude. And even the mistaken poster was well-intended, so sneering at her in that fashion was both unhelpful and unpleasant. There are infinitely more courteous ways to make the required point, which were in fact used at the time, and I'm actually entertained at having my own response questioned, when the original unpleasantness is being glossed over.

skyeskyeskye · 05/08/2013 23:51

I paid for a third of our home outright from sale if my house but we out it in joint names. When XH walked out my solicitor told me that it didn't matter who put what in, it was owned 50/50 and that would be the starting point. He said I may get 70/30 in my favour as I had DD. he also said that the court sees it as important that both parties have a roof over their head.

I was prepared to go to court to get back what I put in. luckily for me, XH walked away with nothing as he couldn't be bothered to fight "for the little he would get". So I retained what was morally mine if not legally.

Basically it doesn't matter what he thinks, if you own it jointly, that's the starting point.

Are you getting full tax credits etc? Could you get a family member to act as guarantor for your rent or deposit?

I can understand if you can't afford legal fees , but your X is wrong in what he is saying.

Joy5 · 06/08/2013 08:57

Thanks perfectstorm

your post is excellent too, think at the start when everything is too raw, you see everthing as a whole, your post breaks things down into easy manageable steps.

horseynewmum, hope you're feeling a bit better today, and you managed to get some sleep.

If not, hope you can work out your next step, just the first one and then do it, then you'll feel better you've achieved something. Sending you an hug :)

Mendi · 06/08/2013 08:57

I disagree with you perfectstorm. Collaborate wasn't rude at all. Yes there is plenty of good advice on this thread, but it only takes a couple of howlers - which the OP might take as gospel - to potentially cause problems if that advice is taken.

I am a qualified lawyer (not family) and have been corrected on points of family law by Collaborate before, which I absolutely think is the right thing to do for the benefit of all MNers.

Spickle · 06/08/2013 13:54

Not qualified at all.

My BIL and SIL were married for 5 years with a 2 year old DD. The courts decided on a 30-70% split in favour of the mother as she was the main carer and didn't have much earning capacity. My SIL had only worked part-time throughout their relationship and was a SAHM when they split up. My BIL had contributed far more financially than SIL but the courts prioritised their child's needs, hence the greater proportion going to SIL.

Please seek legal assistance or represent yourself.

If my BIL had thought he could get away with a low offer, he most certainly would have tried!

MOSagain · 06/08/2013 20:00

Psssssst mendi, think I am the rude one, not collaborate. He is always so polite and utterly charming

Mendi · 06/08/2013 21:08

Oh yes. Must polish my glasses. I still think everyone's been civil though.

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