Dad seeks advice!

[Pluto69]

First time here so HI!

Here's the story,

My partner and I have separated although still living together waiting for house sale ( not great but not terrible ) My X is refusing me fifty percent care of my daughter stating that I can have her 167 nights per year. Oddly enough this just keeps me above the CSA discount threshold and means I am a night a month above the threshold! My x will not give a reason as to why she wishes to keep me on 167 nights despite me asking multiple times.

My x also works shifts and has told me I will need to work around a five week care pattern with me having our daughter 3 out of the five weekend so that she can provide a suitable shift pattern to her employer. I have been doing this and love having my daughter. I don't believe it's overly good for our daughter ( aged two and a half) but I have been going with it to keep the peace.

I have now got to the point where I feel extremely angry that I'm not " allowed " fifty fifty care but am expected to work around her shifts in terms of my daughters care. I work 8-4 Monday to Friday and feel like I'm being abused somewhat for doing so.

I am thinking of just refusing to work around her shifts and written to her to say that I intend to change the pattern to a fairer system that doesn't just work around what she wants. I have had no response at all which is the same as my request for 5050 care.

I wanted your views and thoughts as its very hard to see into the goldfish bowl when your swimming around inside it!!

Many thanks to anyone who has read this far

Mike.

PS. I am on the birth certificate and have had equal contact, care , financial input etc since my daughter was born. I have no criminal record and have no skeletons in the cupboard. I am a professional bloke who just wants what's fair.

Join many of us Pluto :)

I feel good about myself. My conscience is very settled.

Bad days are when I'm tired from juggling DC and full time work, paying mortgage which covered his debts on leaving, receiving no financial aid from him, washing machine breaks, floods, I feel ill...... and I think of him taking no responsibility for the DC whatsoever, socialising down the pub. Life feels unfair and I have an internal weep.

Generally I pick myself up and look at my very happy little DC - they really are happy and settled and that makes it all worthwhile

Captain Nancy ( like the name) I think it's a great thing that the x progresses her career and I have done the same over the years before we met and had our little one. My only objection is expecting me to support her when we are separated by working to her shifts with no choice and THEN saying I can't have 5050 care! I will probably be hung out to dry but I don't think I'm being selfish, I just think to hold me under the CSA threshold by eight days when I'm working around her career wishes is a tad wrong! And I honestly think that any child should have equal rights to see both their parents ( provided one or the other isn't a risk to them ) and that should go without saying. I know some guys who just aren't interested in their kids and it both disgusts and puzzles me. It really knocks me back to think that x should assume the status of child care dictator making me some sort of second class parent by that assumption.

Livestockjeans. If there is a heaven, you have a seat booked without a shadow of a doubt! You are a good person and very wise with it!

Sorry! Livestockjeans! got to love predictive text.

I didn't suggest you were stupid or lazy , I just wanted to establish what you felt 50% care was. And tbh I am none the wiser.

What was your ex's income and working hours before you split and what is it now? Has she seen an increase/decrease pre and post children?

I appreciate you have lost income because you can't take overtime but I am failing to see, in that respect, why you are any different from thousands of single and joint parents all over the country who lose income because of childcare responsibilities.

I can also appreciate being pissed off at not being consulted. Have you spoken to a solicitor? Maybe they could clarify your position?

fwiw i agree with you pluto, she does seem to have made herself 'the one who get the say' wrt contact and i dont see any reason why it hasn't just been a case of both of you saying "right lets get our diaries and work out how we're going to share the holidays" whilst assuming 50/50 care the rest of the time. i do hope you can resolve these feelings because they only damage you and your DD be feeling resentful (i know!). as others have said, your DD will not know that she gets 15 days less a year with daddy. and whilst i totally agree that it shouldn't be that way, i think sometimes we have to choose our battles and as this one wont be damaging to your DD, i would let it go (i've learnt to let ALOT go!).

Abigail, sorry, I didn't mean to sound defensive but probably was being. I've never ever been on a forum in my life so opening myself up here a bit. 5050 to me is having shared equal time with my daughter as I always have. When I have her in my care I do all the things a parent does. I've been through the potty training, I take her to the docs, I cook and I wash her clothes etc. I genuinely don't just do all the nice stuff. I buy her clothes and get the wrong sizes on eBay! I endure the parties ( I really am not a small children party fan) and smile all the way through them. I do all the things a parent does including the joy of finding a little smelly plastic bag in the rucksack when she comes home from nursery with the jeans and pants in it that she had on in the morning but now doesn't! and I love every bit of it with all my heart.

We both went part time when my daughter was born. I only dropped a day where as my x dropped to twenty hours and then built up to full time just before we split and I went back to full time about six months before that. I probably do need to see a solicitor but really want to avoid a legal battle where things get nasty and resentful. I tried to explain the financial thing a few posts back. It honestly doesn't bother me but the principle does. Having read through the posts here it would appear I may be better off abandoning my moral high ground and just swallowing it back, if I'm honest I have spent my life fighting for what I believe to be right professionally so it's a tricky one for me! I will no doubt manage it though!!

I probably do need to see a solicitor but really want to avoid a legal battle where things get nasty and resentful.

Then ask for mediation, you both have to pay for mediation as it isn't free. But it could be money well spent to get what you both think will work as a set up for your new arrangements apart.

OP - while I agree with the principle set out by others that it is best for your DD if her care by her parents can be organised around a shift pattern, I understand your frustration and wonder if it stems from how rather than what is being done?

My DP was told by his ex when she needed him to have the DCs because she was working - she made no secret of the fact that she believed it was for her benefit to allow her to work, rather than the DCs benefit. She refused DPs request for the DCs to come to him after school on the days she was working nights, instead insisting that he collected them from her 3 hours later, with their school uniform etc in a suitcase (yes, really), which they were expected to take to school the next day with strict instructions not to leave anything at dads The inference that DP was providing childcare was reinforced because he regularly received phone calls less than an hour before pick up from their Mum telling him that he didn't need to pick them up because she had called in sick or had got someone else to cover her at work. Similar reasons were given for the DCs going back to Mum early, sometimes no more than an hour or two after arriving at Dads! Unsurprisingly, the DCs were unhappy, unsettled and never knew whether they were coming or going. They were even collected by their Mum who had clocked off at work with a migraine one NYE while they were celebrating a belated Christmas with their Dad

I suppose what I'm trying to illustrate is that even if you choose to accommodate your ex's shift pattern, it needs to be in a way that benefits your DD, and doesn't relegate her time with you to something that only happens because her mum works. When my DP tried to negotiate with his ex, she withheld contact completely. When they eventually went to family court, her demand to return to a shift-based contact schedule was refused on the basis that she had managed her work schedule without the DCs seeing their Dad at all for three months and a regular contact schedule was put in place that took no account of either parents work commitments. The DCs are more settled and happy, but see a lot less of their either their Mum or Dad than they could.

Caring for your own child is not "childcare"!

If you can start seeing any time you spend with your child as something you are doing for the child rather than the other parent, you will be a lot happier about the arrangement.

olgaga exactly my point - if the OPs ex considers the OPs care of his DD to be a childcare while she is working arrangement, it's no surprise that the OP is frustrated!

Resident Parents (often Mothers) always have to work around the NRP's work shifts or we are seen as obstructive.

It is seen in exactly the same way if an NRP refuses to work around the RP's shift patterns.

Why is 3/5 weekends not good enough, if you are working 8-4 Mon-Fri? Would you be paying for Childcare if you had her in the week? Or would you expect your Ex to pay for that?

Surely as you have more weekends, you are getting decent quality time with your DD.

If you want 50/50 care, you have to accept that this means, like a Resident Parent, that it means that you lose the ability to be flexible with working times, days and shift patterns.

That's life when you have DC's and are no longer in a relationship with their other parent, I'm afraid.

Haven't read the whole thread but I personally think that the father has as much right to 50% as the mother. It doesn't seem right the the mother calls the shots unless circumstances are that the father is not willing to care for or contribute to the cost of raising the child. The OP is willing to do both. The arrangement does seem a little biased.

NotaDisneyMum There is no indication that the OP's ex considers it to be childcare. In these situations if OP is available, what exactly is the problem? It's not childcare, it's parenting.

Childcare is what is required when neither parent is available.

Would OP (or your DP, for that matter) prefer their child to be at a babysitter or childminder in those circumstances? I doubt it.

As AbigailAdams pointed out, this is what parents have to do whether they are together or separated.

LivesinJeans is absolutely right when she states Both (parents) have to realise that they may have to (unfairly) give to the other parent in terms of money/time or some other compromise to put the DC first.

The problem here is not the fact that parenting has to fit in with the work commitments of both parents. The problem is when one parent develops a sense of resentment about it. That can happen whether parents are together or separated.

The difference, post-separation, is that it is compounded by a feeling of injustice. But as others have pointed out, these feelings of injustice and "moral principle" really must be set aside in the interests of the child/children.

olgaga
But as others have pointed out, these feelings of injustice and "moral principle" really must be set aside in the interests of the child/children.

And that's a consummation devoutly to be wished.
On all sides.
By mothers and fathers.

So, the OPs partner should, at least, explain the reasoning behind her decision.

There is no presumption in law in this country that children of separated parents should divide their time equally between both parents. Indeed the research tends to suggest that 50/50 parenting is more in the interests of the parents than the children, who would prefer to have one base but see lots of the other parent.

As others have pointed out, it's not called babysitting when it's your own.

OP said:

My x ... works shifts and has told me I will need to work around a five week care pattern with me having our daughter 3 out of the five weekend so that she can provide a suitable shift pattern to her employer.

Mums assume 'entitlement' (and I guess I am just as guilty of that as any other Mum) when relationships break up. Where a Father has been there, parenting equally then there really is no reason that Mum should call the shots and Dad should have to take what he's given. That is however what seems to happen-not least as courts tend (whether we like it or not) towards maternal care, hence my initial comment.

IME a Mum doing a 'poor' parenting job, with child out of it's own bed 4 nights a week, missing school and being developmentally restricted was given 'a second chance' (having snatched the child) rather than child go back to Dad where great strides were made in a short period of time. The reason? She 'realised her shortcomings' and they'd have to 'disrupt school again'.

Pluto69 if you want to ask a family solicitor what they think, do so. Nothing says you have to act further than just having a conversation and setting the legalities and liklihoods straight in your mind. There's no need for your ex to even know you've been if you decide not to proceed beyond the first consultation, which is often a set fee for an hour and they'll give you genuinely knowledgable, legally sound, experience based advice.

I feel for dads in these circumstances, it doesn't seem fair, or in the child's interests to be used by the mother as a bargaining chip. As it seems to me that is what she is doing. She dictates the times the dad has responsibility for the child, but makes sure the total hours are right at the cut off to maximise her financial settlement. Warped....

OP speak to a solicitor. I would in your shoes.

Read my earlier posts - he isn't right at the cut off point. For the arrangement to affect child maintenance he'd have to have the child more than half of the time and claim child benefit for himself. This isn't about that. The bandings for reducing CM are 52, 104, 156, 208 nights etc. Over 183 and you're focussing on changing who is the resident parent. OP isn't doing that.

OP, there is a cliche that lawyers like nothing more than a client who says it's about principle because they will fight to the bitter end no matter what the costs. Think about it.

If you go to court there are no certainties about the outcome, just probabilities. The status quo is one factor but there are others taken into account. Going to court has the tendency to cause resentment and resistance making it difficult or impossible for parents to work together. Collaborate's earlier comments were quite appropriate given that this is a legal section. (BTW he is a solicitor and father and if I were you I would accept his advice given freely and thank him.)

If the OPs ex has stated you will have to look after DD when I'm working then it is fairly clear that she considers her ex to be providing their DD care she needs when she can't do it herself - in other words, she views the OP as a childcare option.

Had she said, Im not going to be able to care for DD on these days/times, can we arrange a care pattern that maximises DDs time with both parents? the OP may not feel as aggrieved.

OP, your ex's motives should be clear if you ask her a simple question. What is she proposing happens to your DDs care if she takes a day off work? Will your DD remain in your care as arranged to fit in with her shift pattern, or will your ex no longer need you to have her in those circumstances?
If the latter, then I'm afraid she does view you as childcare, not value you as an equal parent in your DDs life

There really are some posts here stirring up things for OP rather unnecessarily.

There are plenty of fathers who object strongly to mothers putting their children with grandparents so they can go to work instead of shipping the kids off to dads. Similarly there are plenty of fathers who expect that if they do shift work the contact arrangements should be varied so that they still get to see the kids when they're not in work - generally the courts agree.

Why shouldn't the same be true in reverse when the mother works unusual shifts? Why get your knickers in a twist about the mother's motives? You can never do anything other than guess at her motives anyway, and what does it matter why she's offering such generous terms for contact? If a father refuses contact just because he thinks he's being used as a babysitter then he'll get to see his children less. He's just putting his injured pride before the needs of his children, and if his contact is reduced and mum gets used to coping with other child care arrangements the court is unlikely, IME, to grant him anything as generous in contested proceedings.

That is what I would tell any client of mine.

collaborate i believe that long term, an arrangement based on the RP need for the NRP to care for the DCs could be more damaging for the DCs than a regular schedule that includes formal or informal childcare provision.

I say that as someone who has witnessed my DSC being instructed to leave their Dads home by their Mum who has turned up unexpectedly on the doorstep, where the DCs are belatedly celebrating Christmas, because their mum has clocked off her NYE shift early suffering from a migraine. My DSC are far more settled knowing that when they arrive at their Dads house for a few days, that is where they will definitely be sleeping, rather than be constantly be wondering if Mum will come to pick them up at a different time. They now understand that the time with their Dad is not linked to their mums shift pattern - they now know that they can spend time with their Dad whether or not she is working.

If the OP has been told when he will have to have his DD because his ex is working, then IMO it makes sense to put safeguards in place to protect his DD from last minute changes and disruption that may result from short-notice changes to her mums needs.

With respect, the situation you describe has nothing to do with the OP's situation. No one's saying that an arrangement changeable at the whim of the mother with a minute's notice is a good idea. If on separation OP sees the children for 49% of the time and then at some point in the future mother gets a regular job the father will still be seeing the children 49% of the time, that being the status quo and there being no need to change it.