Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Need family law advice for my friend.

46 replies

CardyMow · 02/06/2012 21:58

Backstory: My friend has 4 dc. Her DD1 is 15yo, from her first relationship. Her DD2 is 10yo, from her second relationship. Her DD3 is 3yo, and her DS is 15mo, both from her third relationship, which broke down irreperably a week and a half ago.

The relationship had had problems all along, mostly because he was VERY controlling. He has been violent towards her once before, about 3 years ago, when they split up previously, but they got back together and he hasn't been physical since, it's all been messing with her head.

A week and a half ago, they had a row about her 15yo DD being allowed to go to an under 18's club night, which culminated in my friends Ex pushing over her 15yo DD. At which point, she asked him to leave.

I need to point out that while my friend works 12 hrs a week as a mid-day assistant at the local Secondary school, he stays at home to look after the two little ones, but it's only 12 hrs a week.

He has been staying with their next door neighbour. On Thursday evening, she was served with papers(?) telling her she had to be in Court on Friday. She had no time to get a case together, and she couldn't get a Solicitor, and ended up with a Duty Solicitor (?). Her Ex had prepared an 18 page statement, she had nothing.

They AREN'T married.

She came up with a Judge who is, erm, well known locally for being a mysoginistic twunt slightly biased towards men in these cases.

She has been ordered to let him move back in for 6 weeks, and that she only gets to be with her 3yo and her 15mo from 6.30am till 1.30pm (yes, just 7 hrs a day), and the rest of the time is 'his' time. The 6 weeks is apparently to give him time to find his own place. The house is a Housing Association house, NOT in a joint tenancy, the Tenancy is in her name only.

However, her 15yo and her 10yo have point blank refused to come back to the house while her Ex is there, and are now staying with her mother. I thought the courts were meant to appoint a Guardian Ad Litem to look after the interests of the children? ALL the children in the family? I can't see a Guardian Ad Litem suggesting this as a plan of action if it means that 1) Siblings will be separated, and 2) Two older dc feel pushed out of their own home. This is complicated by the fact that the father of her 10yo sexually abused her 15yo ten years ago, and therefore she is trying to protect her 15yo from any further emotional issues with men by kicking her Ex out as soon as he pushed her over.

She has been to a Solicitor this afternoon, they are going to appeal the decision, and they are going to try to take it to the bigger County Court, not our local one (in a hope to avoid this judge, I presume).

Can the Judge order this? Last night, she had her best friend round for a Chinese, and he literally pushed her friend out of the house and locked the door (locking both the friend out, and MY friend IN.). He has told my friend that he WON'T be moving out when the 6 weeks are up, he WILL keep the house and kids.

And he apparently did the same thing with the twin boys that he had with his first wife, and they weren't returned to the mother until they left him of their own accord and moved back in with their mother and refused to go back to him when they were 11yo.

He is a controlling, abusive, EA bastard, and he is breaking my friend into little pieces, and the fucking judge is complicit in this - where do I go/ who do I talk to or direct her to to get her some help with all this?!

(Sorry for massive length, and well done if you got to the bottom of it all!)

OP posts:
CardyMow · 02/06/2012 22:00

This is a really bad time for her 15yo to be put through this, as she is just about to start Y11, too.

OP posts:
marriednotdead · 02/06/2012 22:26

This sounds horrendous. If he is not on her tenancy, and is being abusive then he can surely be removed? It was certainly the case with me and my xp albeit many moons ago.
Suggest she calls her local police and asks to speak to someone in their domestic violence unit.

CardyMow · 02/06/2012 22:36

Nothing provable, and our DV unit is SHITE. An ex boyfriend holds a knife up at your throat? Ah, just your word against his, no witnesses, no proof. You are being harassed by text / phone? Ah, just get back with him, it'll stop then. You have been raped repeatedly by him? Ah, well, you shouldn't have denied him it in the first place. WA do a roaring trade round here, as the police do bugger all.

OP posts:
NatashaBee · 02/06/2012 22:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CardyMow · 02/06/2012 22:38

These are examples from 3 separate people, one myself, two other people I know, one who ended up in a refuge, and is still in temp accommodation a year after leaving the refuge. The police didn't even tell her when her injunction expired, it wasn't until she reported her ex breaking his injunction that they told her it had expired...

OP posts:
CardyMow · 02/06/2012 22:39

And the particular judge she came up in front of has a reputation for believeing every word a MAN says to him, and thinking that every word a WOMAN says is lies...

OP posts:
CardyMow · 02/06/2012 22:41

I just don't know what to do to help her, WA drowning round here ATM, due to crap policing, she is breaking herself trying to have the two little dc from 6.30am-1.30pm in HER house, then walking a mile to the bus stop and catching TWO buses to get to her mum's house to see her other two dc. Who will NOT go home until he has left.

Is it even legal for the judge to order her to let her ex back in the house after they have split up, if the HA tenancy is in her name?

OP posts:
JuicyOrange · 02/06/2012 22:47

I have no words on how horrible this sounds. :(

I am not able to offer any advice, but wanted to say I hope your friend gets the help they need.

JuicyOrange · 02/06/2012 22:48

When will the phones for the HA reopen? Wednesday? :(

CardyMow · 02/06/2012 22:51

Yep, Wednesday. She is trying to cope all the way over the bank holidays. Her Ex told her he waited till the Thursday before them to serve her so that WHEN he won in court, she wouldn't be able to even get started on an appeal until the Wednesday.

He is a Wankbadger of the highest order, I have always hated him but bitten my tongue, now I don't want to bite my tongue, I want to take a 2 by 4 to him...

OP posts:
JuicyOrange · 02/06/2012 22:55

That is royally shit as most public transport runs go up the creek on sundas and public holidays.

WANKBADGER!!!!

Right. so would it help to make a lit of all the things needing to be done? IT would be long, but therapeutic to chunk it out and take things off one by one, then work on the next chunk?

Now he has presented his case in court, you would know what angle he is coming from, so what evidence etc does she need to gather?

JuicyOrange · 02/06/2012 22:56

Typo, typos everywhere! Apologies!

Off for a fag, but will be back. You are a great friend to be helping her.

CardyMow · 02/06/2012 23:19

He basically argued that he was the main carer as she was working (yeah, 12 hrs a week in the middle of the chuffing day!!).

He is a LOT older than her, he is 52, she is 33.

He is saying that she won't cope on her own with all 4 dc. (Yeah, that's bollocks, ok she's lacking in confidence a bit, but that is because he has been trying to take over all the time, and has spent the last 3 years TELLING her she's useless and shit). It's not true - her mum is really great, really helpful, and she has a massive circle of friends who are ALL willing to muck in and help her adapt to being a Lone Parent to 4 dc.

She spent over a year having to hide the fact that she had started smoking again AFTER her DS was born, she got fed up with it when he guessed two weeks ago, and she told him she wasn't going to hide it from him any more, if he didn't like it, he knew where the door was, she only smokes outside the house away from her dc anyway.

And he KNEW she wouldn't have transport, due to the bank holidays, whereas HE has a car.

OP posts:
CardyMow · 03/06/2012 07:17

Bump.

OP posts:
Collaborate · 03/06/2012 07:54

I don't understand why you need advice for a friend. She has her own legal advice. Is she really going to take notice of what you tell her some anonymous posters on a message board suggest when her own lawyer, in possession of all the facts, is now looking after her?

babybarrister · 03/06/2012 08:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

babybarrister · 03/06/2012 08:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CardyMow · 03/06/2012 08:30

What I mean is that I really didn't think that a judge could order you to let your ex move back into the house when you weren't even married and the house isn't under a joint tenancy. Is that really allowed for a judge to order that?

OP posts:
CardyMow · 03/06/2012 08:32

And I wanted to know how to best support her through this, I didn't need snippiness, I'm wanting to help her and support her, that's all!

OP posts:
fuckwittery · 03/06/2012 08:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fuckwittery · 03/06/2012 08:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 03/06/2012 08:40

What an odd post collaborate
The ops friend has been bulldozed with no time to prepare and is probably reeling.
The experiences others and legal advice from professionals could be very helpful at this time.
She may not understand what her solicitor has told her or what her options are.
She may not have the funds to access the sort of leagal advice available here.

Spero · 03/06/2012 08:45

I agree that your friend has to get advice from her lawyer as it is dangerous for us to attempt definitive advice without having all the papers.

But I can say, in general, that I am surprised by this outcome if he has physically assaulted a child in the household. But, I don't know how he would have explained that.

There are only automatic appointments of Guardians in care proceedings. Very difficult private law cases can get a Guardian but it is unusual as courts wary of it because of expense.

I assume you have a date to go back to court to discuss more fullynthenterms ofmthe initials order, they should only be made for a period of time at first to allow everyone to come back with their case in order. If you don't have a return date, then she needs to see her lawyer urgently.

The court has to look at the balance of harm test and decide who would suffer most if asked to leave. This takes into account the needs of the children. If the court decides harm isn't the issue it looks at things like who could afford to move out, who has somewhere else to go etc, etc.

RedHelenB · 03/06/2012 08:46

It's a bad situation but now is the time for her to be strong for the sake of the children. Her older children are old enough to understand that things need sorting out & that it is a temporary situation. Even if things don't get overturned six weeks isn't forever & her two older children will be at school for a lot of the time. And yes, most family courts do look to keep siblings together although ht father may well get shared residency if he's always been at home with his children.

CardyMow · 03/06/2012 10:07

Neither of then has funds for another property. My friend is now unable to work as she can't afford child care, she has put in a claim for Income Support. Her ex is unable to work due to disability.

The 6 weeks may not seem like much to your average 15yo and 10yo, but I think it needs to be thought of that the 15yo has had to cope with being sexually abused in the past, and needs her mum's support, and the 10yo has to cope with the fact that her father isn't allowed to see her as he abused her older sister, and therefore SHE also needs her mum's support. They feel pushed out because my friend has been advised by the solicitor to stay in the house or she will lose all claim to it?! So she is there for the younger two DC but isn't able to spend as much time with the older two, after travelling.

And if his previous record us anything to go by, it WON'T be for just the six weeks - he DID get the house from his ex wife, and the children. He is so manipulative, and us insistent that he WILL get his own way.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread