Boundary Dispute - Very Upset Elderly Couple

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

My DM and DF (mid seventies) live on a pleasant eighties-build housing estate with open-plan fronts i.e. no fences. They've lived there since new and have had various neighbours in that time - no problem. They are passionate about their beautiful garden and tend it daily, including a narrow strip of ground, about 60' long by 10' wide that divides the two front driveways. The last five years or so, the latest neighbours on one side (a much younger couple) have been claiming that this ground is half theirs My parents disagree and, looking at the plans attached to their title deeds, have a point.

Despite various interventions, the problem rumbles on unresolved. The neighbour refuses to accept the title deeds as being definitive and has been claiming his turf quite aggressively, digging up plants, spraying weedkiller on others, throwing any temporary border markers out. My DM, not bothered by a bit of confrontation, has been holding her own so far, possibly aggravating the situation as a result. It finally came to a head when the neighbour smashed some decorative pots outside DM's front door, the police were called and now DM and DF are being asked to go to mediation with the neighbour.

Both are very upset. My DM loves her home of 30 years but is now saying she wants to move house. My DF (a Parkinsons sufferer and registered disabled) is so anxious he doesn't want to sit out in the garden in case he sees the neighbour. They 'don't want to bother me' with their problems but I am.

Thank you for reading so far and does anyone have experience of this? The open-plan aspect means a fence can't be erected even if everyone agreed where it would go. The title deeds plan is good but doesn't include specific measurements that might settle the argument once and for all. Is mediation the best way forward when it's two pensioners up against an aggressive younger couple - or is it too unequal? Should I be telling them to get a solicitor and leave it to them? Thanks

Yes you should definitely try to do that, at least to get a proper handle on the matter

I still think they should report every incident, and make a diary of them for that matter, in the event it ever does go to court

Keeping a log is a good idea. I'll pass that on.

Let us know what you decide to do and how you get on. Good luck

Thanks everyone. Some good advice and the support, as ever, is excellent. :)

how awful. i would see a solicitor, they sound horrid and can't believe they are going to want to mediate!

DM has asked the original builders for a more detailed map but had the request turned down.

There will be a copy with the district council and they can't turn you down as there is no reason why you can't see it. They may have deposited the map with another office, sent it to modern records department but if they still have it or know where it is they will have to let you know and you should be free to view the map. There shouldn't be any reason why you can't photograph the map either, the only request could be not to use flash but you can ask.

First, if your parents are going to a mediation then they should be represented by a solicitor if possible. If they have legal expenses insurance attached to their home insurance then that should cover this (usually up to £50k legal costs). You should get them to check if they have this cover.

I have attended a fee boundary dispute mediations as the mediator's trainee and they were the most emotional and bitter disputes I've experienced. One that sticks in mind was a 3-way dispute over a triangle of land that its owner could not even see from his house but that the other 2 parties had their patios right outside their back doors on. The owner was bloody minded about it and wanted a ridiculous sum or the patios ripped up. Another one, the parties had argued for years over the positioning of the fence dividing their gardens and in the end one of them moved the whole thing in dead of night, cut the neighbour's shed in half, and relaid the fence through the middle! People are very weird about quite small bits of land.

Your parents' neighbours sound horrible but they will need legal advice to resolve this. Worth checking their insurance.

Should have been a few boundary dispute mediations

I have land I can't see from my house..hope this doesn't mean someone else can claim it...?

No ivykaty, don't worry! In this case it as that this guy's land ran to acres and acres. The other 2 lived next door to each other and small little gardens. They had written to him many times asking him how much he wanted in return for allowing them to have their little patios laid on this land that was right by their houses, and he had never responded. So in the end they went ahead and laid them. Then he objected and insisted they rip them up
These were modest people of modest means. They'd done everything they thought they should and it wasn't even as though the owner of the land wanted the land, needed it, or was in any way troubled by their patios. He was just an arse.

In the end they paid him £50k between them. We are talking about a piece of land no more than 3 foot by 2 foot. I even did a site visit!

Cognito - is it possible that the neighbour is looking to extend his house at some point?

There was a similar dispute between two of our neighbours - basically one wanted to extend to the side of the house and by claiming the land he would still have access to the rear - without it the extension would have gone to the boundary.

Do other houses have similar arrangements between the drives?

Cogito, do searches on the HM Land Registry site for both properties. For a nominal fee, you will be able to download Register plans for both. These plans include narrative and a copy of the Ordnance Survey map. On the map(s) the boundary of each property will be outlined in red. This may or may not help give a clearer picture.

Saggars has a good point-you usually need at least a metre from the boundary for any side extension

I doubt whether the land reg plans would be anymore details but it only costs a couple of quid so worth a try I spose

If your parents have home insurance it may well include legal expnses insurance for this type of thing and if they decide to mediate could be represented by a solicitor at the mediation.

I would strongly suggest getting legal advice, even if it may cost. I would also echo mediation.

I am a litigation lawyer and although its a long time since I did property work, this is going to be a mess and a resolution is best all round, even if it means giving up land (unjustly) as in my professional opinion you should never sue for justice, principles of boundary disputes unless you are very rich or very wel insured. Sorry to be negative, but it is a voice of bitter experience. Mediation should help find a resolution, and if something is agreed it then becomes legally binding. A mediator should explain that. You do however need a good one, and you/your parents should ask for recommendations. Some mediators are more facilitative than others, some more judgemental. Which sort do you think you need and go from there. Facilitative will mean giving something. Judgmental may get more of what your parents want but it will be more painful, and your paretns still have to live with the neighbours.

Also boundary disputes are the kind of dispute that will need to be declared if the property is sold and that may have an impact on a future buyer (hopefully some time away)

Personally I wouldn't bother with mediation, he sounds like a bully and will try and get away with what he wants and probably won't stick to any agreement - trying to reach an agreement with such a person is very frustrating because they never feel satisfied unless the get exactly what they want IMHO.

I'd be minded to see a solicitor or....a direct access barrister and ask them to write a pre-action letter telling them to get off the land, or offering, without prejudice the compromise proposed by your mother, failing which proceedings can be issued asking for an injunction restraining trespass and damage to property, and seeking a decalation as to boundaries.

Funnily enough I was looking at similar pleadings I had drafted only yesterday.

The court process is a little labourious, and the case would be allocated to the more expensive multi-track.

I would also be asking for my £150 back from the surveyor - did he or she not actually go onto the land and compare the instructions from your parents, the lie of the land and the deeds/plans? Because at least they should have been able to form a preliminary view on the boundary. Telling you the issue is best resolved via mediation costs nought not £150!

Also your parents might have legal expenses insurance on their home insurance that will pay for the lawyer!

as to thereonthestair - even going to mediation or trying to resovle the issue amicably will have to be declared upon sale, so although completely annoying, the damage has already been done, especially if the polive have been involved.

and as for litigation - yes it can get messy and expensive, but by the sounds of it that may be what is needed to stop this chap in his tracks and his behaviour towards your parents.

They've been checking out their insurance policy and they are covered for legal fees. I'll look into the idea of being represented at the mediation... that's a very good idea. I also like the idea of a pre-action letter and have made a note of that wording. They do have the plans from the council planning office but they are no more/less detailed than the plans with their house deeds. i.e. a reasonable person would accept them as accurate but the neighbour doesn't.

As for extending. I'm sure he'd like to because the property is very small. (I actually looked at buying the place myself once but, for a detached house, it was incredibly poky and badly designed) The neighbour's house has been extended to the rear already. To extend sideways towards my parents' house would be impossible because the only space available is a very narrow path between his house and a tall fence that divides the two properties & continues into the back garden. (Luckily there actually is a fence there!) To give you an idea how narrow the path is, when building the rear extension my parents agreed that a panel of this fence could be temporarily removed so that wheelbarrows could fit down the side.

Declaring all this should they decide to sell is a concern that they're already aware of.

I would echo the advice of thereonthestair to avoid litigation if at all possible and reiterate that the mediation service offered by the RICS boundary experts is probably your best bet.

Incidentally, as wonkylegs has said, forget trying to establish a boundary using Registry or Local Authority plans. This is almost always doomed to failure due to the plan scale especially - as in your parents' case - with such a narrow strip of land.

Wonkylegs thought the patch was 10 inches wide...

If they own it (on title deeds) then any removal of their plants is criminal damage. If they are not on deeds, then adverse possession has now to be applied for.

If the strip is a boundary its usual for one of the parties to own it. The neighbour will own the other side and so on down the street.

Mediation could be good, but might look at needs and that might mean some concessions, but as for keeping a relationship might be good - but neighbour has lost his rag quite a lot so might be resistant (good mediators should be able to handle this).

ASBO not unreasonable!

OR send him a letter saying that to settle it, he could make an offer to buy it for a nominal amount. When he writes back saying 'give you £1' he is acknowledging their ownership

also if 80s build there will probably be an overall plannng statement re open plan and who is responsible for which boundary- check that first if you can