Boundary Dispute - Very Upset Elderly Couple

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

My DM and DF (mid seventies) live on a pleasant eighties-build housing estate with open-plan fronts i.e. no fences. They've lived there since new and have had various neighbours in that time - no problem. They are passionate about their beautiful garden and tend it daily, including a narrow strip of ground, about 60' long by 10' wide that divides the two front driveways. The last five years or so, the latest neighbours on one side (a much younger couple) have been claiming that this ground is half theirs My parents disagree and, looking at the plans attached to their title deeds, have a point.

Despite various interventions, the problem rumbles on unresolved. The neighbour refuses to accept the title deeds as being definitive and has been claiming his turf quite aggressively, digging up plants, spraying weedkiller on others, throwing any temporary border markers out. My DM, not bothered by a bit of confrontation, has been holding her own so far, possibly aggravating the situation as a result. It finally came to a head when the neighbour smashed some decorative pots outside DM's front door, the police were called and now DM and DF are being asked to go to mediation with the neighbour.

Both are very upset. My DM loves her home of 30 years but is now saying she wants to move house. My DF (a Parkinsons sufferer and registered disabled) is so anxious he doesn't want to sit out in the garden in case he sees the neighbour. They 'don't want to bother me' with their problems but I am.

Thank you for reading so far and does anyone have experience of this? The open-plan aspect means a fence can't be erected even if everyone agreed where it would go. The title deeds plan is good but doesn't include specific measurements that might settle the argument once and for all. Is mediation the best way forward when it's two pensioners up against an aggressive younger couple - or is it too unequal? Should I be telling them to get a solicitor and leave it to them? Thanks

I don't think them being pensioners is relevant.

Why is the neighbour so determined and enraged?

I think it's relevant that they are 'pensioners' because the pot-smashing (also nasty letter writing and verbally abusive) neighbour is a massive ugly wardrobe of a 40 year-old and my 75 year-old DM is about 5 feet tall and 7 stone wet through. I have no idea why he's such a bully.

Why didn't the police deal with the criminal damage?

Thanks Methe but the neighbours have at one stage tried to claim that they have the right to the piece of ground using the same 'adverse posession' argument. The fact that it is in my parents' title deeds, runs alongside their driveway, has been neatly planted and regularly maintained for 30 years and is not a bit of old wasteground obviously escaped them. That's why I think medition with such irrational bullies may fall at the first hurdle.

The local Community Support officer came round and, from what I hear, rather persuaded my parents not to press charges if he 'had a word' with the neighbour. So they agreed in order to keep the peace.

Have you met the ugly wardrobe?

No, not why is he such a bully, what is his claim based on and why does he feel so strongly?

Are both sets of deeds the same? We own our house but I have never seen the deeds.. how do they work?

Did they try to claim adverse possession even though they haven't lived there for 12 years?

I'd forget the mediation and go straight to calling the police ever time they so much a brush past a leaf of your mums planting while in the mean time get some solicitors on the case.

Talking to fuckwits like this bully never work.

Someone needs to find out why the neighbour objects so much. Perhaps it is as simple as not wanting other people to come on to his property (if indeed it is his) - people can be very territorial.

The trouble with the adverse possession argument is that this is a valid defence bona fide purchaser

I really do not think it would be worth the argument (ie solicitors fees) to retain the 2"x60" piece of land.

What do the neighbours actually want? The plot to be split in half? Can your mother truly not be persuaded to agree to that?

I've spoken to him before all this happened. Would describe him as the arrogant type. It sounds childish, but I think he may feel strongly because my parents' house and gardens are much bigger than his and he's jealous. It started with the rear boundary fence. He had a relative replace it and tried to shift it a few feet into my parents' garden! Dug up a row of fruit bushes in the process. Luckily, because they are home all day, they saw what was going on and stopped him. But if they'd been out all day they would have come home to find their garden was a bit smaller than when they'd left it and their rasperry canes were lying around rather than in the ground.

Yes, this is my point. It can't be resolved until we know WHAT the ugly wardrobe wants, and WHY.

Sorry that should say 2'x60'

He dug up their raspberry canes?

I'd have been furious.

"Can your mother truly not be persuaded to agree to that?"

Not half, no. If you stand at the front of the properties and take a straight line from the street to the back fence it's pretty obvious where the boundary runs and it's a thin strip along the side of his driveway. Has never been an issue before

They were furious about the raspberries. The fence was positioned correctly in the end... far easier when you're replacing an existing fence... so I think he decided he would wage war over the more debatable front.

The fact that it has never been an issue before does not help your parents now, sadly. Perhaps the other neighbours were grateful to have the area planted and maintained but nasty neighbour clearly isn't. Afraid I can't see any way other than mediation. The mediator will get to the bottom of why he objects.

Have you asked the local district council if they have the building plans that where submitted to grant permsion to build? As these may have further information about the measurments of the lands.

Often building plans can reveal bits that didn't go on further plans.

I would say mediation and avoid solicitors a all costs (excuse the pun) a decent one would say mediation is the way forward anyway.

They have nothing to lose from mediation but their own time and some petrol money.

Giving in to this thug cannot be an option can it? He's obviously had people giving in to him his whole life and now thinks he can just take whatever he wants.

*CogitoErgoSometimes )

Useful leaflet, access to 30 minutes fre advice and a regulated and impartial mediation service here

Please don't think I'm not sympathetic to your parents situation-I am

But legal fees and arguments are a bastard, and I say that as a lawyer!

Given your penultimate post re digging up the back fences I would be more minded to make this a police matter. What utter bastards

I will say, though, even though they have peacefully occupied the land that still doesn't automatically give them the right to retain

Sorry you and your parents are having to deal with this shit

Sorry when I say police matter, I would be reporting every single incidence of damage/abuse etc

My DM actually used to work for the planning office at the council. She got something from them but it's not any more precise than the title deeds. I'm at the angry stage where I either want to go around and lamp the neighbour or offer him a cheque to leave my parents alone. Commitments and distance make it difficult to attend the mediation with them - assuming I'd be allowed to - but I'm going to try

The CSO police have been involved more than once but I think they just see it as a 'leylandii hedge' trivial dispute and aren't really taking it all that seriously.

Thanks Pendeen for the link