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Original poster

I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT JUST HAPPENED. Any lawyers got advice?

36 replies

MayMom · 09/04/2011 14:16

I just tried to get the train (South West Trains, I think) to Bath and was told that trains were so busy with rugby supporters, that I would have to fold up my pushchair, carry my two year old and my bag (I am 8 months pregnant). I told the ticket man that I didn't think I'd manage that, to which he replied "Well I can't sell you a ticket then" - very brusque, rude and unhelpful - he shut the till drawer, got up and walked away!

Anyone know what my rights are? Anyone know what South west trains policies are regarding this kind of discrimination? - I know it is not the same exactly, but what if I had been in a wheelchair? Would they have found the room then? I have had this issue before on rugby days and have not been able to fit on a train - even with a folded up pushchair. Walked home (crying - it's the hormones!) feeling like a second-class citizen that South West trains dismissed as less important than rugby supporters.

Any thoughts?
Vikki

OP posts:
meditrina · 09/04/2011 14:20

I hope a lawyer comes up with a definitive answer for you, but other transport companies have well publicised policies that they may require you to fold pushchairs at peak times so I suspect it is not illegal.

You can't compare to wheelchairs, as disability legislation applies.

Sorry that it's so shitty for you on this route.

HecateQueenOfTheNight · 09/04/2011 14:25

I have no idea what the law is, but surely common sense dictates that if space is limited, things have to be packed away so that people can fit.

What he should have done, was offered to help you with it. Carry the pushchair perhaps and help get you settled.

Bucharest · 09/04/2011 14:30

Sorry that you are upset, but I think Hec is right.
What you'd probably have found, if you had done as he asked, is that the rugger buggers on the train would have been really helpful.....I caught (with great trepidation)a football train with dd when she was 10 weeks old and the football fans were lovely, finding us a table, settling us down, cooing over the baby....
You'll probably get a tenner compensation if you write a stroppy letter, but is it really with it?

ladyintheradiator · 09/04/2011 14:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
MayMom · 09/04/2011 15:39

Fair point from you all, thanks, having had a piece of cake and cup of tea I feel marginally better.
I think I probably would have felt much better if the ticket man had been a bit more helpful and a bit less dismissive.
I'd like to think you're right about the rugby fans but having been in a similar situation at the station before - although I was ALLOWED a ticket that time - , I found that other customers simply stood in the doorway of the train (not moving to stand in the carriage itself) and left me on the platform...with a folded up pushchair, toddler in tow..watching the train pull away. This almost happened on the next train as well.

Is it REALLY too much to ask for that First Great Western use a bit of forward planning when there is a rugby match on, and put a couple more carriages on.
Uh oh, I need another cup of tea.
I see your point HecateQueenoftheNight, but surely he doesn't have the right to refuse me a ticket? Couldn't I just wait like anyone else would if I didn't fit? What does he think I'd do???? Would any of the people in the queue behind me be told there won't be enough room for them? People with luggage?

Right, where's the cake.

OP posts:
Bucharest · 09/04/2011 16:12

Good on you MayMom.
I remember bursting into floods of tears at Nottingham station when 7 mths pregnant and changing platforms for the 4th time in about 10 minutes, up stairs, down stairs. Gah.
Enjoy that cake!

Original poster
MayMom · 09/04/2011 16:29

Thanks Bucharest.......may well try for that £10! How much chocolate could I get with that??????? - Or a bottle of wine for sometime after May!

OP posts:
TheMonster · 09/04/2011 16:35

YOu deserve cake and chocolate after the walk home!

HecateQueenOfTheNight · 09/04/2011 19:39

I'm not sure they're obliged to sell anyone a ticket, any more than any shop is obliged to sell to someone if they don't want to.

I may be wrong on that. But I think that it's all 'offer and acceptance' or whatever it's called. They offer and you accept. They don't have to offer, you don't have to accept. If they offer and you accept, it's a sale, if they offer and you don't accept it is not (say, if the price is too high or the terms unfair) but also, if you would accept but they are not willing to offer, that's legal too.

I think. I am not a legal bod, this is just stuff I have read and I may be totally wrong.

HecateQueenOfTheNight · 09/04/2011 19:39

oh, and that is not me saying he was right to treat you like he did. I think he was really mean and rude.

sneezecakesmum · 09/04/2011 19:40

Train operators are the biggest prats ever. Their comuter trains are packed like sardines but they dont have the skills to sort out extra carriages. A pregnant woman + toddler + buggy stands no chance!

bemybebe · 10/04/2011 10:43

Sorry, but if you refused to fold the buggy, why did you expect to be sold a ticket? Do you think he would be more sympathetic if you did not act confrontationally?

sneezecakesmum · 10/04/2011 11:02

What was OP meant to do, 8 mo pregnant, toddler holding one hand, bag in the other... balance buggy on her head.? The pig ignorant ticket salesman should have asked a porter to help! If heavily pregnant women are offered so little support on Mumsnet what chance do they have on a train Sad
Big mug of decaf Brew from me!

HecateQueenOfTheNight · 10/04/2011 11:06

Well, with the best will in the world, what do you expect us to say? He had no legal right to do what he did? Not true. He can be prosecuted? not true. She had a right to get on that train with her buggy unfolded? not true.

And we - well I - did say that the man should have helped her and was a big old meanie.

That doesn't mean she had any legal right to board, and since this is posted in legal, clearly that's what she was asking. What, legally, are my rights. To which the answer is - probably fuck all, love. But the guy could have helped you and he was a bit mean not to.

bemybebe · 10/04/2011 11:07

Actually, when I ask for help I am never refused. She did not to fold the buggy in front of the ticket office, she could have done this on the platform. Being militant is not necessary.

bemybebe · 10/04/2011 11:08

Sorry, she did not NEED to fold the buggy in front of the ticket office.

Butterbur · 10/04/2011 11:09

A porter? It's not 1947 you know!

Why didn't you just buy your ticket from the machine, march in, and hold the door of the train open until someone helped you in?

I know, it's easy for me to say, when I'm not pregnant. I'd have been happy to help if I'd been there though.

DumSpiroSpero · 10/04/2011 11:10

SouthWest trains are not the most sympathetic bunch. I once got kicked off one of their trains because I had the 'incorrect ticket' (student ticket covering a certain length of the line - according to them it wasn't valid on their particular trains even travelling on this section Confused).

It was gone 10pm, I was a teenager, on my own, had no mobile phone and was turfed off a deserted station in the middle of nowhere. Fortunately the payphone worked and my parents were able to collect me (30 mile round trip for them though!).

It's not unreasonable to expect someone to fold a buggy, but he's totally unreasonable not to offer you any help and to have that kind of attitude with you - I'd definitely make a complaint.

bemybebe · 10/04/2011 11:11

Weird situation. I am obviously missing something. Blush

bemybebe · 10/04/2011 11:13

I use SouthWest Trains every day for 12 years to commute into Waterloo. I had 4 step-children and a disabled husband. I had only once experience rudeness from their staff, otherwise they are brilliant.

threefeethighandrising · 10/04/2011 11:20

A friend of mine used to work as a conductor on the buses and they had all sorts of rules about things like this. He showed me a confidential document with guidance for conductors about the treatment of types of passengers. It was so long ago I forget exactly what it said, but I'd be surprised if the train companies don't have some kind of guidance for staff on pregnant passengers / passengers with children.

Pregnant passengers / those with children qualify for priority seating after all.

Although I doubt there's anything written into law, I would be surprised if there isn't something written in their own documentation.

If it was me I'd definitely complain. That was a shocking way to treat you. If I was you I'd be after a personal apology (and £10 of chocolate Grin)

threefeethighandrising · 10/04/2011 11:21

"Weird situation. I am obviously missing something."

Yes. Compassion.

moomaa · 10/04/2011 11:21

I don't think you have any legal rights.

I've travelled on trains a fair bit, including a couple of times pregnant with 2 toddlers (yes I am mad) and you can't do it unless you ask for help. More often then not people will approach me offering help. If they don't, I look people in the eye and ask for a specific thing e.g. put DD1 on, ask someone to hold her hand so she doesn't run off down the train. I haven't had anyone refuse to hold a child's hand or help with the pushchair on or off, I have had people refuse to move seat, but others have then moved instead. You have to be bolshy I'm afraid. Most people are nice.

KatieMiddleton · 10/04/2011 11:22

Sw trains are terrible. They decided one weekend not to let anyone with buggies use the lifts (despite posters at the station saying ask to use the lift) and I've been told off for travelling at peak time with a buggy (hospital appointment so had no choice). I complained, they suggested I was mistaken Hmm and made a half added apology that I felt that way Hmm

Interestingly there may be protection under the law using the provisions of the Equality Act for pregnant women.

KatieMiddleton · 10/04/2011 11:26

I should point out I wasn't wanting to put unfolded buggy on train just get out of station that has steps and is supposed to accessible. It's practically impossible to carry a baby/small child and a buggy up a flight of stairs on your own.

The implication that women with children should not be travelling on SW trains really pees me off Angry