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Original poster

Need advice re contact

65 replies

stoppinchingthedummy · 10/03/2011 17:54

Hi all i apologise if this is a little confusing ,i will do my absolute best to let this make sense without too many details being revealed ...ok

My sister split from her partner of 6 years - he has a daughter who my sister has cared for,for the past 6 years since they got her out of care. Ok so they have split due to his drug taking and being unpredicatable and basically putting her through crap.

Ok so 3 weeks ago he left and came back a day later and "snached" his daughter( i know technically she hasnt been snatched cos he is her dad) and they are living with his relatives. Ok so now a court case is on as my sister fights for this child and has been told for 2 months the child will reside with her fathers family and my sister will have access once a week while the police,courts and ss find out the whole history!!

Right so now my sister has been told by her barrister no contact with the ex or his family only to meet on her access day at a specific time and drop off at the same time every week. She has just had a phonecall from one of the family members who has the child ,saying that he has been texting her (my sis) and as she hasnt replied he will be using this as evidence in court that she cant be bothered about her access day!!! Angry My sister is now highly upset as she is very very excited about seeing the child (who she has always been mum to) and is now worried this will go against her having her back permanatly

my question for someone who knows is can she get into trouble for not answering them since she was told by her barrister no contact?

Any replies recieved i will be greatful for. :)

OP posts:
melvinscomment · 10/03/2011 20:21

@ stoppinchingthedummy :- I am not a lawyer but have some experience of child care law. For the social workers and the court the main priority is the welfare of the child. If the father has a drug problem which would make it likely that the child could suffer significant harm if left in his care the social workers won't leave her with him. I think the only chance the father's family have of keeping the child in the family is if some of them can get what is called a special guardianship order to look after the child. The texts between the father and your sister are not important. I would suggest that you and or your sister get in touch with his family and say if no one gets their act together and provides a safe environment for the child to live in, she will very probably be taken back into care and then possibly or even probably adopted regardless of what any of you want. I think to have any chance of avoiding that the family will have to cooperate with social services and show that they can provide a safe environment for the child to live in. I think you will agree that is very alarming. Anyone who thinks it's wrong can say so.

Original poster
stoppinchingthedummy · 10/03/2011 20:54

Thank you melvinscomment- social services are involved now and currently the child resides with her father and his family at their property. My sister is going to contact her solicitor tomorrow to ask for advice about texting back but for now will not contact them. Thank you again :)

OP posts:
melvinscomment · 10/03/2011 21:33

@ stoppinchingthedummy :- This is also alarming! If the social workers think the father's parents can't protect the child from the father they will remove the child from them! The best thing may well be for the father to move back to live with your sister and leave the child in the care of his parents. It is quite possible that the social workers will leave the child with the granparents for a while, then decide they either aren't suitable or can't protect the child and remove her. The likely outcome then being child into care then adoption!

melvinscomment · 10/03/2011 22:19

@ stoppinchingthedummy :- Also, and upsetting for your sister, I think it is probably much more likely that the social workers would be agreeable to the daughter staying with her grandparents than with your sister. On the assumption they are OK. That way your sister could see the child. If adoption happens no one sees the child! I would say the father definitely needs to get out of his parents house either to your sister's or somewhere else.

Resolution · 10/03/2011 23:32

For God's sake Melvin. Your experience of Social workers was that your child was taken into care. You are not in a position to dish out advice, so stop doing so. Some people might actually think you are qualified to do so.

OP - Melvin is very much anti-social workers. His reference to a special guardianship order displays what an ingnorant twat he is. I don't condem him for not knowing enough about them - just that he pea brain has the cheek to give advice on it.

A SGO is definitely not what will be in the forefront of peoples minds.

STIDW · 10/03/2011 23:40

Based on the information given any talk of adoption is just scaremongering speculation.

To answer the question, your sister doesn't need to communicate directly with the relatives and it is very unlikely it will be held against her. If there is a contact order the family are required to make the child available for contact as ordered. It is often better to negotiate through an impartial third party to prevent things becoming overheated and any discussions or arrangements can be made through her solicitor.

melvinscomment · 11/03/2011 00:01

@ Resolution :- I haven't had any children taken into care. You can dish out your advice. I'll dish out mine.

melvinscomment · 11/03/2011 00:04

@ STIDW and @ Resolution :- Who do you think the child will end up with and why? ...

Resolution · 11/03/2011 00:05

My advice is given out as a solicitor of 20 years experience accredited as a family law specialist by the law society.

Your advice is slopped out as a paranoid shit bag who doesn't care who he confuses with his rotten take on things.

GypsyMoth · 11/03/2011 00:07

Won't the drug use be tested/hair strand etc and need proof?

I'm sure he'll contest it!

Resolution · 11/03/2011 00:08

I wouldn't be so presumptious as to hazard a guess based on the limited information we have. and anyway, that is not what the OP asked.

STIDW answered the initial question with aplomb.

melvinscomment · 11/03/2011 00:09

@ Resolution :- So, bearing in mind your 20 years of experience, who do you reckon the child will end up with? ...

melvinscomment · 11/03/2011 00:11

@ ILoveTIFFANY :- I think there's a fair chance the SWs already know the father uses drugs.

melvinscomment · 11/03/2011 00:14

@ Resolution and @ STIDW :- Why do you reckon the sister's legal team are trying to prevent her communicating with the child's family? ...

Resolution · 11/03/2011 00:41

I can't be bothered to answer your inane questions Melvin. I'm happy to donate my time to helping the OP, but the kind of help you need can only be provided by therapy.

melvinscomment · 11/03/2011 02:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

prh47bridge · 11/03/2011 09:26

OP - Please ignore Melvin. As Resolution says, he has a chip on his shoulder regarding Social Services. On another thread he has claimed that most social workers involved in child care are mentally ill. STIDW has given good advice.

melvinscomment · 11/03/2011 09:37

@ stoppinchingthedummy :- I would suggest that you and your sister look at all of the posts and make your own minds up. It is correct I am not a big fan of social workers in general, quite a high percentage of the child care variety may be suffering from paranoid child abuse psychosis. I would say that if the grandparents and family want to talk to you you should talk to them. And bend over backwards to be nice to the social workers, regardless of what you think of them!

melvinscomment · 11/03/2011 09:40

Here is a 2007 video of Eric Pickles MP, now Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, talking about Social Services and the Family Courts.

He says that many years ago he was Chairman of the Social Services Committee of a large Local Authority and was appalled by the partiality of files he saw. More time was spent trying to prevent people discovering what was in their file than trying to ensure the file was accurate. Allegations which had been proven to be false continued to be used.....etc

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynf3eyfqrfM

melvinscomment · 11/03/2011 20:24

Here is Child Protection Worker :- www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrS2qzk8S10

Original poster
stoppinchingthedummy · 13/03/2011 11:42

Ok i havnt really gained a lot from all the arguementative comments but i do want to thank all of you for looking at the post and trying to help!
I dont have a lot of faith in social services at the moment to be honest they dont seem to give a crap about the child and cant see whats best for her just too scared to do something incase they do the wrong thing Hmm My sister saw the child yesterday on her access visit - initially the child didnt want to leave the family member who was dropping her off but then wispered to my sister that they had told her she wasnt to go or they might hurt her :( Its all so horrible and i wish i could help but i know ss wont listen to me :( they just think im sticking up for my sister but i honest to go just want this child safe and would be prepared to let her live with me if that meant she was safe - She is covered in headlice and nothing has been done :( when she has had her visit from a social worker and they asked her questions she said they start with "make sure your telling the truth" then when she says something bad about how she feels the social worker has questioned her "are you telling the truth are you sure?!" Hmm i wish i could have faith in them i really do

thanks again

OP posts:
Original poster
stoppinchingthedummy · 13/03/2011 11:44

*honest to god that was meant to say .

OP posts:
thefirstMrsDeVere · 13/03/2011 14:19

stopping you can write SS a letter offering to have the child live with you if the current placement is not considered safe.

I would think that SS are assessing the placement but it does take time. If they think the child is danger they can remove her and place her in your care immediately. As a close relative they do not have to do a full assesment before this happens. They have to do it within six weeks (if I remember rightly) of her being placed with you.

If I were in you I would make sure SS knew of my willingness to provide a safe home for this child in advance of any decisions being made.

Its sounds a dreadful situation.

thefirstMrsDeVere · 13/03/2011 14:21

I forgot to say, please contact www.frg.org.uk for excellent advice. They know their stuff and are not anti social services (which is really not helpful) but are advocates for families involved in the system.

Original poster
stoppinchingthedummy · 13/03/2011 19:00

Thank you thefirstMrsDeVere i will write them a letter and i will tell them that i would be more than willing to provide her with a safe and loving home until they can reach a decision. I have a feeling its all going to come to a head again as my sisters ex has rang her today saying he needs her to take the step daughter to school and he cant care for her and he needs her but my sister is stronger than this and knows that as much as she loves the child like she is her own daughter she has to put her own emotions aside to fight for her - its got to be the most frustating feeling ive ever had to want a child to be taken care of so badly and yet feel so so so let down by ss :(

This child is not allowed any contact with her biological mother and yet her biological father has been making her contact her upsetting the girl who is already so confused and hurting :(

thanks again :)

OP posts: