I feel very let down by my university, I don't wish to go back now. What would you do? (discrimination problem)

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

I started a full time NHS bursary paid course a couple of years ago, I told them I had post viral fatigue before I started the course as this is what my GP told me. My sickness due to fatigue has been high. I became ill in April last year and, after tests, was diagnosed with MS. I have kept the university informed throughout, given them medical evidence, been through student support to set up a plan (which was crap to be honest, extra time in exams and to sort extensions for assignments out myself which the course leader wouldn't agree to without a GP note for each occasion, meaning there's a few non-submissions/late submissions). I've tried damn hard to get on with it, the fatigue caused by my disease is hard, they know I get really, really tired, I've been telling them for 2 years. It's not always safe for me to be on placement so I call in sick if I'm too tired as patient safety has always been my first priority, the last thing I would ever want is to put a patient in danger and get struck off.
I have been told by the university that I am not allowed any sick time, if I have any more time off she'll have me thrown off the course. She said I was a 'nightmare student' I feel as if I'm wedged into a corner. I know she can't do this, we all get grief off her, she's as compassionate as a brick. I do not wish to just quit, I've worked so hard but I feel as if I can't return, it's just too stressful and the MS relapsed last week, probably because of the stress of her and home problems. I can't run the risk of a relapse because of her, I'm unsure what to do now. I can do other things but it's not in me to allow her to do this to another student.
Have I done the right thing by taking the time off?
Thankyou

Sadly I'm not shocked at all that this behaviour is from a medical lecturer :( I would write a letter either directly to her and copy in her next-in-command as a first resort, or as an official complaint to the university if you feel it has gone too far for that at this stage, to the effect that her conduct is harassment.
MS is automatically covered by the DDA from point of diagnosis so please feel confident in standing your ground. Hope all goes well tomorrow.

God, if they suck the compassion out of you once you qualify then I'll run off as quickly as I can and never go back. My personality is built on integrity and compassion, I have such a good mannar with the patients (the staff tell me that it takes me ages to x-ray them because they just want to talk. I wouldn't want to loose this.

Um... right.

They mentioned nothing about the above. When I commented that I had been told I was a 'nightmare student' she denied it, nothing was mentioned about the threats, I did say I found it incredibly stressful. They have proposed this:

Sit the resits in December, hand coursework in at the same time. Go on placement 9-4 until christmas, have an extra week off in December and a week off at half term, then make some time up on placement at the end of the course. I can leave with a diploma after christmas if I wish/need to and will still be able to work in my field, just as an assistant practitioner. Placement they have proposed is OK, not 4 weeks at site far away and I can get a taxi refunded if I fill the disabled students form in.

They were not aware that I didn't need to give them gp notes for every ecf so are going to look into it.

I said I'd ask mumsnet think about it.

Whether you need a GP note for every time depends on the uni policy on ecfs, but most of them (if they insist on evidence), will accept a variety (perhaps including personal tutor's comment, which can effectively replace GP note).

At the end of the day you have a fluctuating condition/disability (the important bit), so a GP note each time doesn't make sense, particularly for preplanned extensions...(and they should be preplanned - after all, you can always hand work in early, and they should be making adjustments for your disability).

Maybe point out that you are aware that everything landing at the same time can cause issues (can happen with extensions), and that due to past degree you know that you (as with any student) need to plan your time to avoid this. If you've done Gantt charts, you might find it helpful to map everything out and make sure that you don't have work for 5 modules going on during placement (basic one in Excel with months across the top, and modules/placement segments down hte side). This also shows hem that you've thought , and backs up what you're saying if there are bottlenecks.

This also might help with working out whether what they propose may work for you - which is the important bit.

Flares may change things...but I've known people training in various allied/nursing professions with everything from ME to colitis flares/relapses who have had to work round them - in this case, medical notes may be needed if you go beyond the self-certifying period/if required for assessment purposes if that's what your uni uses, but equally they shouldn't discriminate if you miss some time because of your disability...i.e. you should have chance to make up the hours, although it lengthens the degree (most professions have x hours placement as part of their standards - yours may/may not).

Have you seen Occ Health? I had to see them prior to starting my course, and whilst their usefulness varies, they can be useful in terms of backing up/recommending placement adjustments in letter form...including appropriate lunch break and shift timing (because they can help with placement adjustments/safety).

If this was a private conversation, I'd be asking what support your uni offers students on placement - this varies wildly, but if you have an academic contact during placement time, this should be someone who is willing and able to provide this support, including helping you explain/negotiate reasonable adjustments with your placement (you should be involved in this). This also feeds into the disclosure side - I disclosed my disability to placement providers as required, but tended to frame it within 'If I do z to achieve y, it works out the same as doing x to achieve y' (alternative ways of meeting standards), or linking my limitations to my future scope of practice. I also used to explain that I used taxis so they knew my transport wasn't completely under my control...(but my profession works on one supervisor, one student, so it may be different).

Irrespective of how you feel at the moment, I would want to see plans/support for getting you through year 3...talking to you about the diploma at this stage does not sound awfully positive - this should occur only after you have failed 2nd year twice unless you ask about it (because if they haven't been supportive of dis needs up til now/your condition/support needs have changed, this should be reason enough for you to resit a year as a first sitting).

Sorry, I know that's a bit long, varied and may not apply...but I hope it does work out for you

They have changed the whole course, my year is the last one for this course, the first years have a different set of lectures/outcomes so it would be impossible to retake anything so I have to do it now or not at all. I can't resit the year as it's a different course and I'd have to pay the fees for the year myself.

You have been really, really helpful, thankyou

Belle: Last comment (unless you ask anything else), but I would question that, because they have to make provision for people who fail at the end of the year and resit the year, or e.g. become pregnant and take a year out.

Good luck with it all!

I'd imagine they would all be in the same boat.

I'm working at a university and have medical problems which cause fatigue... and would really echo the suggestion of DSA. I know a student with limited mobility who gets taxis funded to and from placements.

But I'm sorry you're being treated like this. It's a sad paradox that those working in healthcare often seem to have the least compassion for illness...

I will apply for it, I use the same taxi company and can get an account so it will solve the need to wait for a reciept.

I hope your uni treats you better.

I'm very fortunate, though the first time around had similar experiences to you.

I wish I was an admissions tutor. If I were, I'd offer you a place without hesitation!

Firstly let me start by saying this is not having a go at anyone I just wish to express my honest opinion.
If your MS is that much of a problem that you have had so much time off uni and placement then can you really see yourself being able to hold down a proper NHS job in the foreseeable future. I know MS is a horrible disease and whether it is progressive or not it certainly affects peoples day to day working lives. I say this because particularly in an NHS it is your job to look after and take care of a patient, everything you do has to be in the patients best interest, with your illness can you guarantee that you will be able to do this 100% of the time, if not it is putting people who depend on you at risk.
Staffing in the NHS is poor at the best of times and I do not think it is fair that you have lots of time off every time you have a relapse as it puts pressure on other members of staff to cover your shifts.
With regards to the comment about you doing full time placement when you only want to work part time; have you ever considered that this is because they want you to have the adequate experience of the job before letting you qualify as again you are ultimately responsible for a patient care and well being, only doing half of what is required is not enough for you to work in the healthcare sector competently. Why do you think the courses are so intense.

I understand what you are trying to say Sasha, there are other staff in the NHS with MS though, there's one in my department, there's also staff with depression/anxiety/dyslexia etc. Surly staff who have disabilities bring alot more to the hospital because they can understand what it's like to be a patient so they are more empathetic and alot better at explaining things?
I would only work part time, there's other part time staff, there's also staff who only work term time, the department is flexible. Stretching the course out for a little longer does not in any way compromise patient safety not do I do any less then what is required of the other students.

But if you stretch it out for more than 3 years then that?s taking up the funding for someone else to do the course in one of the new terms, who will be working full time in the end. It is my understanding that a lot of NHS courses have very limited spaces at the moment, just look at all the people who have been rejected even with good grades, these are the people who want to make a good career out of courses like this, however due to people being allowed to retake modules or years they are denied this.
Also, do you actually enjoy the course, I mean enough for all this stress and pressure. After tax a part time band 4/5 only brings in around 6 to 8 grand a year, that?s not much off doing a part time job in say retail or admin which is far less stressful.

I do love it. Why on earth would I want to work in retail or admin?? 4 days a week would bring in 15k after tax or there abouts. It shouldn't matter if I wish to work part time or not, I have as much entitlement as anyone else to have a career I enjoy. NHS courses have limited spaces at the moment as there's no jobs, most of the courses are full now. I have a year and a bit left, when I started it it wasn't full. Surly it will be wasting the tax payers money if I gave up and left now?
Your argument is starting to piss me off now, I shouldn't have to defend my right to do a course that I enjoy.

Are you a new member Sasha or have you name changed? You appear to have no other posts, how odd.

If like you say you want to work 4 days a week then how come you have not managed to do all the time at uni, surley having one day a week off means you would not have to make that much time up.
When you have a relapse of MS what do you expect employers to do about that if they do not have enough staff to cover on a day to day basis.
If you have too much time off you will be told you are unfit to work and i know that does not go against disabiltiy discrimination because the same thing happened to my father.
I am not trying to piss you off im a trying to make you think of the realistics if you do qualify and manage to get a job.

New member, my child is at my mums and im bored lol

I work in a department with alot of staff, it's not a ward with 2 nurses, there's alot of staff. I had time off with the first relapse, it was treated with a 5 week course of prednisolone rather then 1 week of methylpred so it took alot longer for it to go into remission, hence the fact that I have more time to make up then one day a week. I have an appointment on Tuesday for 'disease modification drugs' which help prevent relapses. I don't just have to work in this speciality, there are other things I can do with the degree when I finish the course.

Hmm, and you searched for this thread as it's not in active conversations.

Given that statements made to you verbally have been denied, I would ask for confirmation of all this in writing, and also for an assurance in writing that if any other problems arise between now and Christmas, you will have a chance to discuss them and follow usual mitigating circumstances procedures, not automatically ejected from the course as this lecturer threatened.

I would also consider making a formal complaint, even if you wait till you have finished to do so. Without this happening, she will continue to bully other students. You have the chance to try to put the brakes on that and help others, even if it's past that point for you.

I have it in writing EightiesChick. The student services person has asked that I pp everything to her aswell. I think the 9-4 shifts are more managable then 9-5 because I start to flag at about 4pm.
I'm not sure about a formal complaint as she denied everything, I'm hoping that, by standing up to her, it's made her stop and think, miracles can happen. Thankyou

I was looking to see if anyone had any posts on a specific legal topic, i came across this one as i was searching and it looked interesting as i have a friend who was discriminated at uni
I meant no offence, everyone is entitiled to their own opinion right

You are, of course. Why should a disabled person end up working in admin or in a shop though? Surly everyone is equal and deserves equal access to employment and education? Would you rather see a healthcare professional who understood what you were going through and showed you understanding and patience or one that didn't really have a clue?

Hmm, methinks so.