I feel very let down by my university, I don't wish to go back now. What would you do? (discrimination problem)

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

I started a full time NHS bursary paid course a couple of years ago, I told them I had post viral fatigue before I started the course as this is what my GP told me. My sickness due to fatigue has been high. I became ill in April last year and, after tests, was diagnosed with MS. I have kept the university informed throughout, given them medical evidence, been through student support to set up a plan (which was crap to be honest, extra time in exams and to sort extensions for assignments out myself which the course leader wouldn't agree to without a GP note for each occasion, meaning there's a few non-submissions/late submissions). I've tried damn hard to get on with it, the fatigue caused by my disease is hard, they know I get really, really tired, I've been telling them for 2 years. It's not always safe for me to be on placement so I call in sick if I'm too tired as patient safety has always been my first priority, the last thing I would ever want is to put a patient in danger and get struck off.
I have been told by the university that I am not allowed any sick time, if I have any more time off she'll have me thrown off the course. She said I was a 'nightmare student' I feel as if I'm wedged into a corner. I know she can't do this, we all get grief off her, she's as compassionate as a brick. I do not wish to just quit, I've worked so hard but I feel as if I can't return, it's just too stressful and the MS relapsed last week, probably because of the stress of her and home problems. I can't run the risk of a relapse because of her, I'm unsure what to do now. I can do other things but it's not in me to allow her to do this to another student.
Have I done the right thing by taking the time off?
Thankyou

I see your point Molly.

I would do your research carefully. At the moment there are unemployed and experienced lawyers who are snaffling lecture posts because they cannot get jobs in private practice. Never thought I would see unemployed lawyers but it is happening at the moment.

I think I'm just confused at the moment. The more I research the more annoyed I get. She's known for 2 years that I get very, very tired and all I've had is grief. I've barely passed somethings as I've been so exhausted and it wouldn't have killed her to give me a weeks extension, she's been threatening to throw me off for 2 years, it's hard enough being a single mother, I have sick family (that she knows about), aswell as my own illness, I've basically had 2 years of stress because of her. Everyone I've spoken to about her (not many people though) have been appauled. I should finish the course, but on my terms. I pyhsically can't do 9-5 mon-friday and come home to study so I can hand the work in on time.

Thankyou Mollie

Nothing like your experience but ime some people can be very keen to see someone who is strong fail and will do what they can to see that happen. You need to go above her and get the support you need and should have been offered.

I am, there's a meeting set up on Monday so I'm doing some preparation for that. She keeps calling me 'academically weak', enough of this. I've shown that I can achieve B/C grades when I am well, this should be enough. She's just a bully, she'll carry on and do this to someone else unless I make a stand, I have nothing to loose. I'll take this further, without the added stress she's caused I could have done well on my course rather then scrape through.

Belle, I had similar experiences (but luckily had supportive lecturers too, and it was a different NHS course). I ended up doing placements at different times to others as there was difficulty finding me placements because of my disabilities.

Your uni/department should have fit to study/fit to practice policies (can be two separate) - NHS funded courses do this. It may be worth finding this to look at (normally they give the procedure that should be followed by the uni if they have concerns about your 'fitness'...generally doesn't include a medical note for every separate incident). The DDA does apply alongside that, but the two have to balance. A supportive lecturer (from your department) should ideally be involved in discussions of reasonable adjustments, as the regs for things like time taken to complete a degree are much tighter for NHS courses (this should be available somewhere on your uni website).

This should let you search for HPC courses:
here

There is no reason why your placements have to be AfC (i.e. 37.5 hours/week), as long as there is time in the year for you to reach to hours you need to qualify before the next year starts...if your profession is HPC regulated, then the emphasis is very much on meeing the standards in an appropriate way (i.e. with adjustments), and showing that you have insight to your limitations and will thus limit your scope of practice yourself.

If it is HPC regulated, the first doc here is immensely useful in pointing this out to lecturers who may be applying the wrong standards in the wrong way.

Some unis do appear to offer flexible learning for the course I'm guessing your doing...but not sure if that includes your uni.

Thankyou for that snowmash

I've had a look at the link and I am following the HPC guidelines regarding fitness to practice, the NHS bursary unit allow 4 years of funding incase a year needs to be repeated but the university woman says that they do not and it has to be self funded. I have constantly told them that I get very tired when I spend the whole week on placement, we all get half a day study but this isn't enough. Students are allowed to go into placement during the holidays, however, I do use the holidays to recover from working all week, I could negotiate working some of the holiday for a shorter week in placement. I can see her point regarding making time up, it'll be a very tight squeeze to get it all in by christmas when I am supposto start the third year due to the academic/placement blocks that they have. I would have alot less time to make up if they had allowed me to go on placement on the days off when I had the academic blocks though, an extra student shouldn't really matter when there's students that have left the course or there's normally 2 years of students there anyway. Assessment wise, they could be a bit more flexible with the hand in dates. It's probably a better idea to start the second year again given the resits I need to do, then I can carry over the placement days to get shorter weeks on placement, I'm not sure they will agree to this though.

You know, the thought of going back fills me with dread.

Belle, that's totally understandable...I would be too.

Flexibility with hand in dates should be possible for certain modules (I know we had some that had to be completed before 1st placment, e.g. M&H). I used to hand in one assignment during resit week (so did it over the summer, but that relied on passing - but meant I could do it as very low levels of work over the summer).

Is your clinical subject one where clinicians typically work weekends? If so, and you can't use the summer holidays (I was fortunate that I had no DC then) you may be able to argue that it is reasonable for placements to either be shorter days but spread over more days, or spread over a 7 day week (with days off spread out) rather than a 5 day one.

Having seen your thread elsewhere, it is discrimination, you shouldn't be treated like that (you should have reasonable adjustment for academics and placement, as long as you can still show you meet standards).

Another option may be to suspend for a year, which gives time for things to settle (and for your department to pull themselves together). That said, I've only known people who've done that for things like pregnancy

Whaever you decide, good luck to you! (FWIW we had someone similar who was equally nasty to single parents and older students, so I only met with them with my tutor... ;) ).

They do work weekends, the university have said no to this though because of the insurance (fair enough), I can't see why I can't make up days during the uni blocks though, I know there's other years on placement but people drop out and there's sometimes more then one year on the placement at one time anyway, it's not asking too much I don't think. I can suspend it for a year, they only pay the bursary for pregnancy though, not for illness. She's nasty with a few other students, this is why I'm not convinced it's discrimination. They could be more flexible regarding the assingments and placement though, it's too late now. Academically, I already have a degree. When I am feeling well my grades are B-/C so I can do it. I just get so tired, especially when on placement, I hand the work in and it scrapes through/fm.

We only get a 30 minutes lunch break aswell and 15 mins in the morning when we are on placement, it takes time to get to the canteen so we don't really have a lunch break, time to get there, time to eat and then have to go back, this is one of her policies. All the other people on placements in the other locations (the uni sends people to 3 locations) all get an hour for lunch, apparantly this is because other universities allow their students an hour and their students go to the other locations. I get so tired.

It's discrimination because you are being refused reasonable adjustments (being nasty to other students doesn't come into it, unfortunately for them).

Rest breaks and altered hours do constitute reasonable adjustments; whilst my profession was week day only, and I did placements pre-AfC (so the rule was that you worked the hours your supervisor did), I did negotiate (with placement supervisors) to start early (don't have fatigue as such, but a 15 minute journey turning into an hour was not good for me), and also appropriate times/activity schedule to give my PA proper breaks. I'm actually a little perturbed that the 'rules' are laid down by the uni - reasonable adjustments on placement are the responsibility of the placement and the uni...but for myself and others it was generally between student and placement (with uni only giving support if there were issues), because that's what would happen after qualification...

Fatigue is something that they should be adjusting for relatively easily, as it applies across many conditions (having had the 30 min lunch break at a canteen 10 minutes away, I know what you mean).

If the uni only sends people to three locations (and exerts the amount of control/centralisation it sounds like), you probably do have grounds for arguing that your suggestion of doing days within your academic weeks is reasonable adjustment (wouldn't have worked for me as placements were individual).

Although this is probably not about your profession, it may be useful.

I agree from a legal perspective that this is disability discrimination, and the DDA applies to your situation. As well as the legal obligation to make adjustments your lecturer may also be harassing you on the grounds of your illness. You need to take real life advice about this if you want to take this further. There are good solicitors out there who do this kind of work (I'm afraid I can't recommend one) an some may do no win no fee. The equality commission may also help. If you can't get advice prior to your next meeting at the very least take someone else along with you, take notes of what you are saying (and they are saying) and explain you will be takoing legal advice about the situation.

As regards doing law next, I am afraid I do know many many unemployed lawyers at the moment, a number of whom are now teaching. That's not to say that there aren't jobs, just they are very hard to get hold of. I also have to say that although the DDA obviously applies to lawyers and teaching jobs too, I know many job applicants who have been turned down due to illnesses even if there is no way for it to be proven.

Which is not to say don't do it, but do it in the main because you will enjoy it, or it interests you.

You've both been really helpful, I'm tempted to print the information on the link off and hand it to her.

I know the other lecturer who will be there is lovely, she's really supportive, student services are there aswell so it should be OK, I don't think anyone else is free. I will take it further though, she needs to know that it's not OK to bully students, I've had 2 years of this. This relapse (I believe) is due to the stress that she has caused by constantly telling me she'll throw me off the course if I don't do x,y or z. They know that I get incredibly tired on placement, it's unrealistic for them to expect me to go in and irradiate patients, it's incredibly dangerous and the legal consequences for me if something went wrong would be dire (not to mention the effects on the patients), I wouldn't be able to live with myself. I'm fairly sure they will be as nice as pie tomorrow and will bend over backwards, it's too late though, this relapse alone has cost me a great deal of money (taxi's to and from the hospital, acupuncture, food that's been thown, take aways because I've not been able to cook). There's a few solicitors here, I have legal cover under my contents insurance aswell so I can call them in the morning.

I'm not sure what I'll do afterwards. I've started to write childrens books, I can't just sit and do nothing, may volunteer as a magistrate

That's a ridiculous comment for her to making to start with - fitness to study/practice is always done by committee, and is generally a long drawn out process. If you have that in writing (or witnesses), that may help. The person I interacted with who had odd views believed what she was saying so much that she didn't alter her views with another lecturer in the room (who was shocked).

Re: taxis - do you have any form of receipt? (I used to be able to claim back taxi costs to and from placement minus public transpor costs).

If you're going down the legal route, you may get little interaction unless you've been down the uni complaints procedure - just as a pre-warning...

Hi,much sympahies re your lecturer, she is being really inappropriate,
however at the risk of being flamed.... when you pass your course have you thought about how you will manage a job in this area? sorry if i m suggesting things yuove already thought about, but you may need to decide your speciality so it does cause anymore stress iyswim

hugs

doh,,,, doesnt cause stress

She printed something off regarding the resits I have to do and the timescale for making time up. I have an email off her regarding the change of placement, I should have had a three week block in a hospital 15 miles away, it takes me 20 minutes to walk to the city centre, 15 minute wait for the bus, 30 minutes on the bus, 10 minutes wait for another bus to the hospital and 15 minutes on that bus, I should have done this there and back, I asked if I could go another time, I'd literally only just gone into remission and was incredibly tired. The email was nasty, accusing me of avoiding the hospital, using any excuse not to go , she said I'd come up with an excuse further down the line to avoid going there, it was quite horrible. I just thought the travel was too much, I should have done evening shifts finishing at 9pm aswell, meaning I'd have a 14 hour day as I'm up at 7am to get ds to school.
I don't have reciepts, I drop ds and cut it so fine to get to the local hospital I never have time. I got a bollocking for time keeping aswell, the earliest I can drop ds off is 8:45, the hospital is 10 mins away on a good day so am a few minutes (3) late quite often, I have told her this, she's said not to worry before as I can't control the traffic, when I saw her a couple of weeks ago she brought it up and moaned about it, it's on the sheet. Ds starts a new school in September which I choose partly because it's open earlier. The clocks at the hospital are all different times which doesn't help, one will say 9am, one will say 09:05. On my phone (GMT satelite so I know it's right), it's 09:00, I can't win.
I'm going down their complaints, I'll see what they day tomorrow and take it from there.

I can work part time hotboat 3 or 4 days a week. I wouldn't work full time.

Belle - I can understand your frustration but have you considered that you might not simply be well enough to do the course? It seems to be a very involved long hours course and possibly very difficult to do if so much has to be prolonged. Just a thought.

Yes, the thought had crossed my mind. I'm now on medication for the fatigue (she knows), it's made a huge difference, it's I didn't have it before. She knows I'm taking it, I checked it was OK first as the one they were going to give me was amphetamine based and I didn't want to fall foul of any regulations. She knows all about it.

Might be worth applying for NHS DSA so you can claim for taxi transport due to effects of your condition. here

Some unis aren't completely aware that if this is recommended, you can be awarded this (minus the cost of public transport for getting here).

If your fatigue varies during the day, that is reason for doing morning shifts (unless there is a specific standard you oculd not meet by not doing a late ).

It is a careful balance between health and disability (and if it's anything like my old uni, you can't use childcare as an argument..)

The shifts are 9-5 so not much of a problem. I have noticed that I do get very tired after a full week on my feet though, some of the weeks I get to sit down alot (CT/ultrasound)

I honestly don't think it's a good idea to stay. The last relapse was really horrible, I just can't be done with the stress.

Totally understood. I just wanted to say that I don't want to sound like I was pushing you to stay in a horrible situation - just used to get upset by people leaving my course without knowing what could/should be done...your course may well require M&H too* (whether it's D or T), which may not help, whereas there were enough types of placement on mine that I didn't need it.

*in the past weeks I've had 5 x-rays, and 3 head CTs - sure that staff were joking about C&R techniques for a reason.

It's very easy to loose sight of the bigger picture sometimes.

You've been really helpful and I am really, really grateful.