How do I continue to work with 4 dc's? What do others do? Sorry long post

[accessorizequeen]

I just wondered what other people's solutions were as most of the people I know are teachers etc/have only 1 or 2 children so seem to manage ok.

I am returning to work 2 days a week shortly after having my dt's. My dc's are 6, 3 and 15 months. Having worked out my leave entitlement etc, I will have just enough holiday to cover all school hols for this year with 4 weeks of that unpaid parental leave. But once the dt's are 5 I won't get any unpaid leave and if anyone gets sick other than me I'm stuck. Not to mention I was hoping we could have a holiday outside term time so we could afford one! With nursery costs & cm to pick up ds1 after school I'll get about £300 a month so it is worth it as we're trying to save for a new house. Although money-wise dp earns so much that this is a drop in the ocean and I don't have to work for the money really.

I do have a very helpful mum but she works p/t and already has my 3yo one day a week. She'll take my 6yo as well during holidays. DP's mum will take the older 2 for a few days at a time (has just done over christmas) but lives an hour away. But both are 60+ and finding it more and more tiring to look after my active children. If I paid for holidays clubs for ds1, it's £20 a day!

In the long term I have to either give up work entirely or find something term time. I don't want to be a teacher (tried it already) or a teacher's assistant/secretary etc as the job I have is much more interesting. Am I just not facing facts here, I'm finding it hard to give up idea of a career because I was hoping to do masters in librarianship long-term and still want to do something outside of kids. Never intended to have 4 children and feeling hampered/frustrated/resentful to a point about the limitations this places on me. Am currently on ADs as not coping with any of it really. I think I am v.lucky in many respects but really struggling with my place in the world & esp managing with 4 such young children. It does not come naturally!

any insight would be really helpful as I just think if working 2 days a week is not easily manageable then how on earth do I ever get a proper job again?

I have no idea, we can't afford for me to work.
I know of people with 4 children who do work though. One a mnetter has a nanny most of the time as well as a very hands on dh but her children are also more spaced out

I hope someone who knows can give you some tips
what does your OH say is it just down to you if a child is ill?

We had a p/t nanny until a few weeks ago, I'd prefer they went to nursery for more stimulation really. But yes, would be cheaper! I know that some people work even if making no money because eventually they will and still have a career, I'm lucky I'm making something but it's quite a well paid job even part time.

DP says he'll take a few days off to cover hols if necessary but he runs 8 businesses so it can be difficult for him to just drop everything. He's quite supportive about it all, thinks I should set up own business but then he would wouldn't he?

I am going to have 4 and cannot afford to work really.

Have no family to help out so would require paid childcare with 4 the best option would be a nanny but the cost of one would probably be all my wages plus I don't really want to be out working for someone else to be looking after my DC (another thread really). DH works long hours in a fairly inflexible job so cannot help out with school runs etc

Part-time wouldn't really work either, I gave up a very specialised career after having DD1 as it involved a lot of travelling as well and we have since moved so I am at the bottom of the pile so to speak. My plans are to go to college once the youngest is at nursery.

Some days it gets me down I feel like I have lost me but think it's only short term really.

sorry, sweetkitty it is difficult to come to terms with, I've got quite angry lately about it all. I didn't intend to get pg with no.3 much less nos 3 & 4! You'd think after all this time I might have got used to it but clearly not.
I think retraining has to be the answer doesn't it, although I don't have a degree I was hoping my experience in the field would get me onto a masters. But working 14 hours a week isn't great experience really. Still don't know of many professions where you can work term-time (professions rather than jobs).

'DP says he'll take a few days off to cover hols if necessary but he runs 8 businesses so it can be difficult for him to just drop everything. He's quite supportive about it '

Well he doesn't sound very blooming supportive to me! These children are a mutual responsibility. You have already compromised your career to have them and stay at home and only work two days. He needs to make some serious compromises and changes too. 'if necessary' - ooooh that has lit my blue touch paper! He's raising these kids too so he shouldn't make it appear that all the logistics and sacrifices are for you to make with him just swooping in if you can't hack it. I refuse to believe that his businesses won't allow for some planned time off. Gently but firmly push back - this is a problem for you both to solve and you not working when you want to whilst he carries on like he doesn't even have kids is not a solution!

AQ - I can understand why you get angry, I get angry when friends moan about their parents who provide most if not all of their childcare for them then turn round to me and say "it's all right for you, you don't have to work!" No I cannot afford to work there is a difference.

I have a degree, worked for over 8 years in a highly specialised field and yes it was my decision to give it all up and am currently pregnant with no 4 as well, suppose it is a case of wanting it all.

I know a few families of four and only one works and she is a P/T teacher and her MIL and Mum between them do her childcare although 3 of hers are at school which helps. The other families the Mother does not work.

I don't know how WOHMs of more than 2 do it, I am run ragged never have a minute between all the school/nursery/toddlers/library groups etc nevermind the housework.

I think the thought of retraining somewhere down the line keeps me sane.

I can understand the frustration and I planned 4. It must be much harder if that wasn't your plan

I also can't afford to work. Sounds silly, but it's true. I've also got two degrees and experienced in something far too specialised, but now 10 years out of date, so almost completely useless!

My dd3 has today started full time school and I'm another one thinking about retraining with the aim of being ready for a new shiny career when # 4 starts school (another 3 years).

I am failing to find anything that'll work with the holidays though, apart from teaching or school work (I've previously worked as a school lab tech, which fits with the part time thing, but it's a job not career IYSWIM).

So retraining sounds good, but I'm not sure what as.....

aq - can't belive your twins have grown so quickly

I managed it with 3, I went back to work when dts were 12 mths and ds1 was 4.1 yrs so had 3 in nursery for 5 mths and it was doable.

But now dc4 is nearly 12 mths and I have taken a 3.5 yr career break (until he starts school with the hope of being made redundant so I can do something more child friendly).

I can't run the house, juggle the childcare (or afford it) with 4. But we chose to have 4 children.

I know juggling 4 young children is hard. ds1 has just turned 6, dd & ds2 are 2.9 and ds3 is 11 mths - I hope you find something that suits you & your family soon

This is something I'm struggling with at the moment as well.
When I had DC4 I worked part time in a job that paid enough to cover the childcare costs and we had a life that fitted in with the hours that I worked.
Unfortunately I was made redundant a few months ago and had to cancel all my childcare arrangements and now, even if I could find a job, I know that I wouldn't be able to set them back up again. As time has passed the 3 school age DCs have different needs/activities and doing anything other than a 9-3 job would be impossible.
DH isn't able to help with anything during the week and I have no family nearby so everything falls to me. The DCs have a age range of 8 years so have very different needs and life is very finely balanced.
I would love to work but am coming to the conclusion that I'm not going to be able to for some time yet and even then I might have to retrain.
I reached a high level in my field but can't now give the committment required for a job at the salary level I need to cover childcare.
I'm finding it hard to accept that I cant have it all and it goes against all my upbringing but I don't regret having 4 DCs for a moment.
Sorry that's turned out so long but its something I've had to give a lot of thought to recently.

NL I can so understand what you are saying because though Im the one to stay at home in my family the OP obviously wants to work and is very capable so why is her career less important

accessorizequeen "We had a p/t nanny until a few weeks ago, I'd prefer they went to nursery for more stimulation really."
Any good nanny worth her salt should be as stimulating as any nursery, s/he should also be taking them to toddler groups etc to mix with other children.
I am currently expecting DTs who will be our DC 7 & 8 and work PT. we are lucky enough to have an amazing nanny who has been with us since just before DC3 was born (4yrs) and she does an amazing job/my Dcs all adore her. my salary basically covers her wages and the children's groups/activities with just a bit left over. DS2 (4y) goes to state nursery 5 mornings and DD2 (3y) is due to start but Nonna has taken both of them plus DTs (2y) to a mum and toddler group and a music group since I went back to work. If you can find a good nanny they are worth their weight in gold!

NL, I don't think I explained it v.well, dp is honestly v.v.supportive, he's said he will take off some hols at half term and summer so that I can work. It's just when they're sick he can't drop things and take a day off, much easier for me to do it because I don't have meetings on etc. He's been talking about retraining/starting a business/being a consultant (of what I don't know, but he's v.encouraging!) just this week, he wants me to do what makes me happy and have a career.

Good point about nanny, ours was 20 and first job, totally wet and really didn't do much with the twins, she was better with older two. I'm sure a decent one would be great but I like them being at nursery I must admit, older two have been there and it's a lovely place. I think once ds2 is at school and dts have funding the money for childcare won't be such an issue.

It does seem that I'm not missing anything then, you just can't have it all! I guess my own business/consultancy/freelance is the only way to go really as I don't hanker after any jobs in schools except being a librarian and I think those are few & far between round here. It's really wonderful hearing all your stories though and that you're fairly happy with having 4. I'm sure I'll get there soon, they're all so young. Ooogs, can't believe you had another after your dt's You have v.similar gaps to me.

It's when I start thinking about taking them to after school activities or whatever, school events that I wonder how on earth I can keep working because I want to be there for that. And I hate juggling, it was bad enough with 2 when I was working 3 days. Feel v.envious of dp's burgeoning entrepeneurial adventures, he is so happy and confident and successful I feel like frumpy dumpy loser by comparison.

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Thanks, Pitch, you give me hope I still haven't come across anything I can earn quite a bit for and I enjoy that would fit in with the kids. I really wanted to be a librarian since I was a teenager and I work as an Information Officer now but if I got the degree I'd earn less than I do now! I shall continue pondering, perhaps when I go back to work I shall be reminded of my skills as after nearly 2 years out of the job I've forgotten really !

I have 3 ds's 3.5yrs and younger, I'm meant to be going back to work in June when ds3 is 12months but ds1 doesn't start school till sept and I can't work out how to make it all work and not be completly stressed by it all, my mum brought me up believe you could have it all but she was a teacher I have a masters and am chartered, I'd be sad to give up on my career

Pitchounette - what do you do now?

Planned 3 got 5 (no it's not easy to come to terms with, is it?), still working 3 days a week. Similar issue with wonderful mum but she's slowing down now. The nursery costs are incredible, but I have a lot of local supportive friends who I trust and employ for £6 an hour self-employed. So for the cost of 2 in nursery I have:

Morning 'nanny' 8.30-10.30 look after babies while DH does school run on way to work.

'Chief Nanny' aka mum 10.30 - 6pm in charge of children but not housework.

'Housekeeper' 2.30-6.30 does laundry, cleaning and makes tea - there is no escaping this is a massive job on top of proper childcare. An afternoon shift means that babies can stay sleeping while Chief does the school pick up.

I was nervous about this arrangement, have to trust people and had to recruit via internet etc checking references. Got the kids to learn how to do interviews and specify what jobs they have to do, so they hopefully won't grow up lazy.

But it is working out brilliantly, everyone seems to be happy about it. I get to just walk out the door in the morning, it all happens to my routine, I get home to a tidy house and a cooked tea. I carry on with my job which I love. AND .... the cost is about the same as 3 days a week for baby twins in a nursery.

Haven't heard of anyone doing anything similar.

sorry meant to say good local support network so know who to trust. Morning nanny is a friend, housekeeper was recruited via gumtree. Also have a friend to double up on childcare when big kids go swimming once a week. It isn't simple, but for me much preferable to staying at home. I'm sure I'm a better parent for still working. Have to keep reminding myself of the longer term maths though - so even if I don't get to keep much pay atm, it should get much better in a few years.

Hope you are able to find a suitable arrangement, it was only at the end of my mat leave that it all slotted into place, I was tearing my hair out before then!

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AQ, what about using the time while the DTs are so little to do some part-time study towards librarianship, then go for a job in a school library so that your hours are term-time, until everyone is old enough to fend for themselves/babysit each other etc? Perhaps it's not that simple to study as a librarian, but we have two fab librarians at my children's school (Junior & Senior libraries) so there are definitely library jobs with school hols available. That way you'd get to test out being a librarian but still be around during most/all school hols while your four are little??? Might make it all cost/family effective?

long story that sounds perfect for you. I am impressed. If I had a decent career I would consider that but it sounds like you live somewhere big things happen.

If I mention something like that in Cornwall everyone would laugh

lol Pitchounette, I'm an engineer at the moment

Thank you oogs, it works for us! But as to the living somewhere big, noooo, not at all, I get a lot of surprised looks when I say that I work. People round here are very proud to be domestic queens and shudder at the thought of relying on someone else. But each to their own. I love my kids to bits and am good at my job, but have zero domestic skills, so delighted to delegate respectfully to those far better than me. !!!

I know quite a lot of families of four in Paris where both parents work FT. And the way they work it is that they live incredibly close to both school and work and have a FT nounou (nanny/housekeeper) to keep the domestic show on the road, and grandparents to take their children off to the seaside/country/mountains during the holidays. They seem to manage without it all going belly up! They don't spend much time with the children IMVHO, and they seem not to mind cramming them into a couple of bedrooms.

I think four children + two careers is a hard one, personally, unless you are prepared to make serious compromises about how much (little?) time you spend with your children. Big jobs with big salaries pay for nannies and cleaners but they never, ever give you a lot of parenting time.

I have 3 DC's, aged 7, 5 and 18 months.

I work 9.30-2.30 Mon-Fri so I can drop DC's to school and pick them up.

Mum has 18 month old whilst I'm at work.

I'm not a teacher or a teaching assistant but I do work in a school so I get all holidays (and snow days!) off.

Works for me - I get to do an interesting job and do school runs and be home by 3.

Sounds to me from what you say you want that running your own business possibly is the best option for you - it gives you the freedom to structure your day as you see fit so that you can attend events etc (my husband does this very succesfully).

Personally, I also disagree that big jobs never give you lots of parenting time (witness my best friend who works 3 days a week for only 20 weeks of the year and earns gazillions for it, and I get plenty of time with DD myself!), but they are hard to find and generally you already need to be in the big job before you have your kids so that the company sees you as valuable enough to be flexible about hours in the office etc.