Is there anyone here with 3+ kids who isn't a high income family?

[WeightoftheWorld]

I've read a lot of the recent 'should I have a third' threads but they all seem to be high income families. I've no doubt there are good reasons for that! Yet still, is there anyone around who isn't a high income family and has 3 or more and if so how do you manage, do you have any words of advice, what are your biggest challenges, limitations or sacrifices? Our joint income both working PT is about £45k but I think if we were to have a third, I would almost certainly need to become a SAHM due to the childcare costs as I'm a low earner.

It's doable OP. We have four, both work part time, but only because anything over part time would be taken in child care fees (we have two under two) once our youngest two get to school age we will probably increase our hours but my DH is self employed so we literally work around each other, and do the child care between us. We still manage a holiday. We are not massive earners but live to our means. If we want a holiday, I would do an extra shift on the day we have off together to save for it. I appreciate it's harder when couples can't work around each other flexibly and child care is expensive so we are lucky

I have four children and our household income is probably just under 50K. We find it fine, I don’t feel like we are just managing and feel like we have enough money for the things we want. I’m a SAHM so we don’t pay childcare. We go on one or two family UK holidays a year - in the past we’ve done house sitting to keep costs down. We get a take away probably once a month, regularly get steak for a home cooked date night, the kids do after school swimming and dance classes, we occasionally do a big day trip somewhere. We have one car. We don’t go out a lot in the evening but the kids are young. We have potential for a higher income in the future though so hopefully that will see us through when they are teens.

I love having four, it’s intense sometimes but also really fun and rewarding

This would help us but I don't think I can make any big life decisions based on part on a statement by a government that won't even be in power when they claim these things will happen. I've no confidence the changes will go ahead unfortunately. I do get your comments about working FT but no for him in his job it makes no difference at all to career progression etc to have dropped a day. and he can easily pick it back up again whenever he wants to tbh. The pensions is the only hit but we decided on balance the kids benefit more from having a day with him rather than being at nursery for that extra day.

I think you need to think of the here and bow and into the future, would you then be able to work PT possibly one FT when they are 5 years older for eg. Then you'll have more income

We had 3 when we were not high earners. I think whether it's manageable comes down to being in a position to control 'outside' factors, such as where you live, how far from home you work (so commuting costs), the type of work you do (for childcare management)

I was fortunate - we bought a shared ownership property, so avoided the deposit costs, dh worked a short commute, we moved to an area where schools/shops/doctors etc were good and easy to get to, so just had one car and didn't have to think about private school fees. Dh got a job where his employer financed a masters degree, which increased his earnings. There was definitely a plan to grow earnings. I was a sahm but did the childminding training and worked as a CM to fit around my dc.

It's definitely easier when children are small as there is lots you can do to entertain them cheaply. Although it's a definite issue that holidays, cars, days out are designed for the family of 4 and it's obviously expensive buying 3 sets of school shoes at a time etc.

We have more money now but I can imagine it's a big issue when you have to factor in university costs - teen kids are more expensive than little ones.

4 kids and earn about £35k between us (I'm freelance so can be less, can be more).

We manage absolutely fine. Don't have holidays abroad but we live by the coast so not too worried about that but aside from that, our children don't go without, and we don't struggle.

We have 3. Planned 2. Second split in half so now we have 3. DH earns 30k and I'm a SAHP on carers for eldest and we get tax credits for all 3 (twin rule)

Obv we didn't "choose" a third and realistically wouldn't have, but I also couldn't have aborted a wanted pregnancy because the baby was the wrong sort.

The biggest issue for us is space. We're in a typical newish 3 bed, so two basic doubles and a box. Twins still in the box until we have the time to do a one-day swap of the rooms but even then, two singles in a basic double will be tight and the box is... well, exactly.

Childcare is the hitch. Twins just gone full time nursery so 30 hours then we have to top up £300+ a term plus £25 a week for lunches. Trying to find work that fits into that isn't easy, trying to work out holiday cover for 2 3 year olds for 10 weeks a year Inc Xmas is complicated. We have little family support with 3 simultaneously cos they're hard work (well, two of them are 3 so, obviously 😂).

I'm doing an OU degree which I'll finish as they go to proper school and hopefully by then holiday clubs will be more suitable. I couldn't imagine handing them over to random groups for a full day when they're not even talking!

We don't go abroad but mainly cos of DS's disability. We tend to stay with a friend, and I'm conscious that extra kid knocks all hotel etc bills up cos you're not a tidy foursome.

I don't drive, need to, conscious I'd need a big car now which scares me.

DS and I adore the theatre but I have to think through what we can see. We use Vinted and second hand stuff plenty but morally I'm good with that.

Yeah, there's definitely potential for us both to increase hours when they're older if they wanted to. I think my biggest issue though is that I think I'd have to become a SAHM if we have any more because it would cost us more than I'd be earning in childcare fees and so isn't viable. DH would obviously go back FT in that situation. But I really don't want to give up work, despite my low wages I worry about the future and know it can be so difficult to get back into the workforce above minimum wage when you've been out for awhile without a career-type job. But I don't think it would be doable.

I worked for a year losing a little bit for that reason. We aren't huge earners but we had three, since my youngest son started school I've gone full time, and we both work full time.

I basically need to be full time to manage financially now - with 2 maybe I wouldn't have needed to.

Hey @WeightoftheWorld , waves from the frugal threads!

We have 4 children on one salary, not a high income (less than you have stated and I'm a SAHM/carer)

What sort of things do you want to know 🙂

We’re on about £30K. Four kids. I stay home with them. They all share a room, but are still very young. We spend a lot of time at parks, outside, doing things that don’t cost anything. We don’t go out for food. It really doesn’t feel like we go without, though. We have everything we need. Staying at home means less money but it means I have time to cook from scratch, shop around for whatever is cheapest, op shop for clothes, furniture, etc. Things that are cheaper but require weekday time so aren’t always realistic for working parents.

Thing is, I don't feel when I'm home with them that I do have time for those things! I have them alone two week days and my God making dinner is such an ordeal every single one of those days. They're both tired and getting hungry, my eldest often starts whinging or even tantrumming or will sit in front of the TV but then ignore the little one. The little one will spend the entire time I'm cooking in our (tiny) kitchen standing at the baby gate screaming his head off. My eldest was exactly the same at this age too. They don't play independently for long at all so it's impossible to get much housework done. I get a little bit done whilst youngest naps but I want to spend a bit of that time with eldest as she already doesn't get much 1:1 time with me.

That was a long way of saying I genuinely don't think I'd have a more orderly house/better meals etc if I quit work, going by what I manage to get done on a working day (especially as I usually WFH 2/3 of my working days now) compared to a day with the kids!

Also finance wise presumably you get UC whereas we don't. Although having ran two benefit checkers recently they both actually said we would be entitled to a bit so we should probably apply and see.

What's the plan with them all sharing a room for the future? Our second and third bedrooms are both small so I'm wondering about when they're older, the ones sharing really won't have much space. Will they not want to have friends over especially as teens? And where will all their stuff go and where will they do homework? Really can't imagine us ever being able to move in this area to something bigger you see cos of the cost.

We have three and a household income of about £28-30k (over time dependent). I am a sahm with a 3yr old and 1yr old at home, oldest is in reception. We own our house outright which saves us a lot of money each month- this was the main factor in me being able to be a sahm with three children.

I do plan ongoing back to work part time in January when my youngest is two and old enough for our local pre school.

We only bought our house super recently! Our mortgage payments are small though so that's not really an issue. Having said that we have a 35yr term and a 10 yr fix with low rates so we've been overpaying as much as poss to make the future easier. Which we may not be able to do as much of if we had 3 of them...

Recent interest rate rises have made our mortgage payments skyrocket, that’s serious worry. My hardest kid is three, and they’re in kinder two days a week. So with two older ones at school, at least during the school term there are two days per week when I just have the baby. I get a lot done on those days. It does take all my spare time to keep the house clean and in order. With such a small house any extra clutter or disorganisation means my whole system falls apart.
I honestly don’t know what the plan is when the kids are teenagers and want their own space. They might just have to share anyway. We have two bedrooms, all four kids are in one of them. If it got bad and we had to separate them we could split them into the two rooms and we could move to the attic, we have a tiny room up there.
I grew up in a big family without a lot of space and it was frustrating at times but overall I’m grateful for it.

We had four and not a high income family. When the kids were little we worked around each other so I did evenings/ nights/ weekends so that childcare costs were low. Have always lived fairly frugally and lucky enough in the very early years to have grandparents helping a bit with childcare.

You need to do your sums re childcare. If you’re earning say £35k or more pro-rata over 2.5 days a week for example (so £17.5k) then you will only need childcare for those 2.5 days and you might be able to afford to have 2 in childcare and still have a bit left at month end. If you’re earning £23k pro rata it might not be viable. But if you take the career break you should find it relatively easy to re-enter employment at that level after a break than if say you’re earning £50k+.

Having your mortgage fixed for 10 years is a good thing, you have that certainty.

Also how old are you? Can you have a bigger gap for no3 to spread out the costs?

£23k pro rata is about what I earn in my secure job which is 2 days a week and when the kids are in childcare atm. Although eldest off to school this autumn and we have grandparents kindly providing wraparound during term-time so it will just be some holiday clubs we will need to pay for. I still really don't want to leave labour market though. I don't doubt I could and I could return but I think my choice of job would be severely restrictive if I returned after a large gap. I know people locally who came out of minimum-wage paying jobs for 3-5 yrs and really struggled to get anything after that which wasnt retail or cleaning. Absolutely nothing wrong with those jobs but I work an office job now that is difficult to get without relevant earlier experience (I'm the only person in my team they've ever hired without previous experience in the sector), I partially work from home, it's fulfilling, interesting work etc. I wouldn't be able to walk back into this in 5 yrs time even though the salary is low.

I'm almost 30 so we could have a larger gap but I think that would make logistics/ housing situation even more of a problem in terms of bedroom sharing for example. My youngest will be 2 in autumn and I wouldn't be looking to start TTC until autumn at least either as I get hypermesis and don't want to be bed bound right when my eldest is starting reception. So there'd be like a 3 year ish gap min again anyway.

@WeightoftheWorld you could leave TTC until maybe next April- that’s when the childcare changes should come into effect so you can see if they actually do, and it will give you a little more time to get your eldest settled into reception? My eldest is just finishing reception now, it’s been a busy year getting to grips with school stuff (homework/assemblies etc and all the school admin) and I was glad to be working part time and not having much else to think about. I wouldn’t have wanted to deal with a challenging pregnancy on top of that!

I agree with your reasoning about not taking the career break and I reckon you can make it work, especially if there’s extra childcare assistance. Mine are 5, 2 & 2 (twins) and I find working 2-3 days a perfect balance.

When we had our 3rd our household income was about £40k, we managed, it’s much easier when they are little, they don’t eat much, lots of hand me down clothes, free to get in places etc.
now ours are all age 12-16, our household income is £95k and we aren’t going on luxury holidays, buying designer clothes or driving round in BMWs!! Our house is a bog standard ex-council (although has been extended) so no massive executive mansion.
I don’t think we would manage on £40k like we used to, partly due to cost of living increases but also because the kids eat like locusts, are in adult shoes and clothes, days out and meals cost ££, it all adds up.

im just saying unless you know that you will be able to increase your income in the future then I would stick with 2. It’s shocking how much more teenagers cost (and we haven’t even got to uni yet!).

we have a decent life and everyone has what they need and some of what they want!

What would you consider high income?? We earn around 80k between us, have 3 children and live more than comfortably but if we were to have a 4th we would be majorly stretched if we continued on the same salary when they got older. Babies aren't too pricey, it's as they get older then cost an arm and a leg!

We have DC4 on the way. I wouldn't say we were "high" income but I think we are on more that you (sorry, that sounds rude!)

There are some economies of scale - you don't spend any more on heating, council tax etc and you can hand down most clothes, books and toys. But obviously childcare doesn't scale so that's a major expense. You also spend more on food and electric (we run dishwasher/washing machine sooo much!). You need to decide if your car would be appropriate - car seats can be an issue. Activities/holidays etc will also be more, but you could look at those as optional.

Do look at your finances very carefully before you make the decision. Bear in mind the teenage years are expensive and you might want to think about whether you will support through university or would hope to contribute to house deposit. I'm not saying dont go for it, just make sure you know what you are getting in for so there are no nasty surprises!

Well, I said in my OP that we have a joint income of about £45k so no offence the PP responding with an income of almost double that obviously isn't very relevant.

Thanks for all the responses. We wanted to settle eldest into primary school first before we started trying even if we do go for it, so I'm parking it for a few months now anyway really until then.

Car is potentially an issue, we absolutely love our car but I don't think we'd get three seats across the back sadly. And affording something bigger may be an issue, would have to look into that properly.

Hi @WeightoftheWorld re car seats have you looked at a multi Mac? Apparently you can get 4 across the back with one. I haven't used it myself but friends say it's good. We upgraded to a 7 seater when we TTC our fourth

We have one DS, then boy/girl twins. DH is high earner but it's still unbelievable the amount of money we get through each month.

We don't live extravagantly. But we live. No abroad holidays since DT were born, the logistics while they are this small is too much.

Our food bill is huge. It includes all nappies/toiletries/food/cleaning stuff, but we spend about £1000 a month on 2 adults, teen DS and DT.

Nursery, they get their 30 free hours, and we get tax free childcare. In order to do this full year, the 30free hours becomes 22 free hours a week, so the 8 weekly extra plus consumables costs us £646 a month.

I have to say, you don't sound particularly cut out to be a sahm if you struggle to make a meal on the two days a week you have them at home, if you'd then be doing this 5 days a week with another child in tow. The financial benefits of being sahm aren't just the childcare savings. It's the savings by being able to source cheaper food and cook from scratch. I go to separate shops for our meat to our veg and a different one for cleaning stuff etc. I get bundles of clothes from FB, weed out what I want to keep and then list the rest of the bundle on eBay and generally make a profit. I get loads second hand, like furniture that I do up (set of sunbleached Neptune chairs for £280, which I've dyed over the course of a month and look brand new) and can search for and go and pick up toys for next to nothing.

I really enjoy all my bargain hunting, and it means we can afford to live well, as opposed to scrape by, but it the amount I save doing all that easily balances out the nursery bill, you can make big savings when you have the time to plan and do so.

We could probably cut back and live more frugally, and it would be good to have more savings, but it's our choice not too, because we want to have quality of life, not just exist. If DH wasn't earning well, it would be quite a miserable life, with constant money worries. It's one thing to live cost effectively but knowing there's a fall back in emergency, but quite another to be living from pay packet to pay packet and praying the boiler/car/washing machine doesn't give up this month because the electric bill was higher than expected.