Thinking my in laws are antisemitic and my DH needs to grow a pair

[ShirleyTemple73]

Ok so this is a long one…

I’m Jewish, DH non practicing catholic, raised by VERY strict catholic parents.

We’ve been married for 15 years, I was only 19 when we met. From day one I’ve always been clear that although im not at all religious, my Jewish culture is very important to me and I would only marry someone not Jewish if our kids were raised Jewish (not half jewish half anything else, I wanted my kids to be raised as just jewish). My husband agreed from day one, he obviously could have said no and that would have been fine- but it’s always been an important factor in the family I wanted. We now have three girls, we don’t do much jewish at home but they go to jewish summer camps, want bat mitzvah’s, we celebrate the festivals and they have strong jewish identities. They know their dad and half their family is Christian, they go to a Christian school, they celebrate Christmas with his family, but they know that they are jewish.

From day one, his family has given me weird vibes. We wanted a rabbi at our wedding - we both agreed, it was all booked, and they threw a fit. Refused to come if there was a rabbi there. My husband sided with them and I backed down, but probably should have seen this as a red flag. They’re very passive so making a big fuss was uncharacteristic.

On our wedding day, my MIL went to church first where she accidentally told my catholic uncle (clearly didn’t realise who he was) that she was devastated her son was marrying a Jew. He was shocked and told me this a few weeks later. For 15 years I’ve never mentioned this to my husband. Partly to not impact his relationship with his family. Mainly, if I’m honest, out of fear he would side with them not me.

Fast forward to today, their weird vibe towards anything jewish has continued. It’s more a discomfort on their part whenever anything Jewish comes up. One of my daughters even noticed my MIL seemed weird when she showed her her magen David necklace. SIL also has same weird vibe. It’s hard to really explain, nothing super offensive, but it’s not in my imagination. I’ve tried to ignore it.

Since 7 October I’ve felt more strongly about my Jewish identity. I’ve noticed this makes DH uncomfortable too. He could tolerate very low level Judaism, but noticing my strong connection to my Jewish identity and strong feelings about antisemitism since then, he’s not been particularly nice. When I post on social media he tells me things like he’s worried for my mental health which feels like gaslighting, my mental health is fine… Also DH is very left wing, so has said some less than understanding things about the conflict, which he’s pretty ignorant on overall. He’s also started to mention on a few occasions how unfair it is to his culture that the kids are raised Jewish. Which makes me very upset because I’ve always been clear about this - he didn’t have to marry me if he felt like this, 15 years and three kids later seems a bit late to bring it up.

His family have said nothing to me (I have family in Israel which they know) not even a happy Chanukah (which tbf they never say, it’s just bothered me more this year). Think they could have at least checked in once.

We’re all due to spend Xmas together on a 10 day long holiday. Not sure I’ll be able to keep my feelings to myself.

AIBU thinking DH and his family are antisemitic? Any suggestions on raising this with DH? Or is that totally pointless? Am I just being unreasonable in general?

I have some experience of being involved in a mixed marriage ceremony ( both Christian faiths). It was all taken very seriously by the priest and minister involved. Lots of organising, certain things were allowed and certain things weren't. The religious members of the family got cross and upset that things weren't being taken seriously enough/ were being done wrong by the less religious family members. Quite a lot of upset people and many there didn't even understand why...your situation reminds me of this.

What?

How dare you come into the Jewish section and tell Jewish people what we can and can't talk about?

Here we go. We Jews are anti-Catholic. Wonder where we have heard that kind of thing before?

He’s also started to mention on a few occasions how unfair it is to his culture that the kids are raised Jewish. Which makes me very upset because I’ve always been clear about this - he didn’t have to marry me if he felt like this, 15 years and three kids later seems a bit late to bring it up.

It's not uncommon for people to agree to something without really fully understanding the implications, and then to regret their earlier position later on.
You said you were 19 when you met DH. Unless he was a good deal older It's likely he was quite young too. He didn't have chiIdren then and it's hard for a person to imagine what it feels like being a parent.
Also, sometimes the old customs become more important to us as we grow older and we start to see meaning in them or they remind us of older relatives who have passed on.
As you have (very understandably) become more strongly engaged with your culture he may sense his family moving away from him and his heritage and he may be uncomfortable at the distance created.

Basically, there are lots of understandable reasons why your husband may have changed his mind about your shared children being brought up predominantly in your religion and culture. He may have decided he now wants them to experience both sides of their family more fully. I know this disappoints you very much, but ultimately I don't think he's out of line here. People are allowed to change their minds. He is allowed to request that you talk this decision through again.

If your kids aren't religiously Jewish but have Jewish ethnicity through you, then surely they naturally are half Jewish on the basis their father doesn't have Jewish ethnicity? I can see why a devout Christian grandparent would be upset.

Why are you joining in with Christmas? Did you get married in church?

I can see why a devout Christian grandparent would be upset.

Yes, because she's an anti-Semite.

Yes, because she's an anti-Semite

No, she's upset because op has been determined to negate her daughters'
other cultural half. It exists whether op likes it or not. In the grandmothers shoes I'd be upset by that too.

I always liked how Leon and June from gogglebox managed this. They made clear to their parents at the start that any children would be raised in both faiths/cultures. I suspect OP's husband was never really comfortable agreeing to forsake his.

Coming on the Jewish MN forum to defend antisemitism. It's just so brazen.

Coming on the Jewish MN forum to defend antisemitism. It's just so brazen

I give up.

So to be clear, I’m not negating their other culture. Culturally I want my kids to be proud of their whole identity, Jewish or otherwise. Religiously they are only Jewish. If they changed their minds once they’re old enough, and they found a spiritual connection to Catholicism over Judaism no part of me would mind. Equally if they grow up to want no religious anything in their lives that’s fine too. That’s up to them - it’s important to me to share my heritage and culture but how much they take forward as adults is 100% up to them. My oldest is about to have a bat mitzvah, even that I left 100% up to her to decide if she wanted, which she did. She knew that whatever she decided was fine with everyone. I guess I can’t empathise with my ILs sadness at their grandkids not being Catholic, because I genuinely wouldn’t feel the same if mine were. I
dont see my job as parent being to control their adult decisions, just to share my joy in my culture for them to take forward as they like. The fact I didn’t want to raise my kids half catholic is my personal choice, my DH could have refused. He of course is free to change his mind, but DH isn’t practicing, he’s not stepped foot in a church since he was 16 and has no cultural affinity to Catholicism other than a Christmas tree and Christmas dinner. We do all those things because they are important to him - it’s a part of his culture he enjoys sharing and I fully support that. Shocking for some non-Jews… those were not part of my culture growing up!

Also Christianity is the dominant religion in this country, so my kids automatically do a lot of Christian things anyway. They sing hymns in school, go to church with school, celebrate Christmas, eat Easter eggs etc. so it’s not a question of ignoring his culture - his (and his families) feelings don’t seem to be to be based on me not allowing them to do anything. It’s based on their visible discomfort whenever me or my kids mention anything Jewish.

I join in with Christmas because it’s important to DH and my kids love it. We got married in a registry office. A church or synagogue was never on the table, but we had booked a rabbi to do a blessing. In the end because of all the drama it was a very small non religious wedding.

Thanks OP. Your latest posts sound a lot more measured than your earlier ones.

I had the impression from your earlier posts that you wouldn't have married your DH all all unless he acquiesced and agreed to raise the children fully Jewish in both a religious and cultural sense. That did seem a lot to ask of someone and I could understand his family being worried and feeling it was unfair. It would also have explained the weird vibe you're getting from them as simple resentment.

I am a bit confused to find you married in a registry office as you specifically mentioned a church in your first post. The no rabbi request seems strange in these circumstances unless it appeared to your ILs to be one-sided? Was a priest going to give a blessing as well?

I think OP said that her mother in law went to church and spoke to someone there. Not that the wedding was in a church.

Yes, I think I misunderstood originally.
I thought mil had arrived at the church first for the wedding, rather than that she had gone to church by herself before the wedding.
Sorry about that OP.

Op I think there may be some mixed signals here. In your op you said you weren't religious at all but in your recent post you clarified that in saying you wanted your kids to be fully Jewish, not half Jewish, you meant religiously. But your kids do partake in Christian worship.

That's not a criticism as I find my own relationship with religion and spirituality isn't black and white but you've been adamant about adherence to Judaism to the point it could have been a deal breaker for you. As has been said, your children are only half Jewish ethnically speaking. They're obviously halachically Jewish but my understanding of Halacha is that it derives from the bible and therefore a religious rather than cultural concept. With you being non religious, your stance would confuse me.

I have a question based on earlier posts. Taking OP's family specifics and behaviour (eg a change in attitude since 7 October) out of it, is it considered anti Semitic for a religious Christian to be disappointed that a child of the family was being raised in the Jewish faith? That's the impression I got and I would disagree.

I'm aware that orthodox Jewish families will mourn if a mixed marriage takes place as it reduces the chance of the child being an adherent of the faith. For the same reasons, canon law still requires a catholic person marrying a non catholic Christian to promise to raise any children as catholic.

I may have misunderstood what other posters were saying on this though and they may have been just addressing the wider behaviours of OP's in laws.

Thanks 🙏🏻 I do appreciate it’s not all a totally rational take. But I’ve always felt strongly that I want to raise Jewish kids and if I was marrying someone not Jewish that was a dealbreaker. I’ve always been totally clear on this and we discussed it at length multiple times before we got married. We were both really young when we got married so I accept it’s maybe something he’s shifted on.

My kids are not very religiously Jewish, we don’t follow really any of the religious rules at home, but culturally I love to share my culture and it’s something they really love too. They know the basic rules (ie no pork) but I leave it 100% up to them what they follow. One eats pork, two do not (even though I do!) I am totally happy to mix in some Christian culture in there too. My kids love Christmas! But to me, everything they do for Christmas is cultural rather than religious. I know Jewish families are sad if their kids “marry out” but the sadness is just that the Jewishness is diluted - it’s a sadness for anyone not jewish rather than sad because of a specific religion. Whereas my ILs are specifically anti me being jewish. My MIL comment to my uncle was specifically about me being jewish, not non-catholic. My SIL is married to a non-catholic and they had a non catholic wedding. Their kid is also being raised non-catholic (although I guess culturally Christian). There was absolutely no comment made by them on this. They never interfered in the wedding or threatened not to come. I also never sense the same discomfort that I feel really strongly around me when I mention something jewish.

They sound racist and intolerant OP. I hope you can get out of going on holiday with these people.

Then op, they sound like utter anti Semites. Any person of faith would feel sad at their kin not being raised in their faith, it's normal I think.

I'm from a very Orange background and my nephew was born on 17 march which raised eyebrows! It's nuts!

Best of luck to you are your kids x

I find Catholics to be very, very intolerant. This would upset me deeply and yes I’d expect my DH to do something if I was in your situation!

OP your last post particularly sounds like you have a wonderful balance and although you say you only want them raised Jewish it's sounds like there are lots of compromises and concessions you make and they get a lot of say to make their own choices.

I would say your MIL just plain doesn't like you, and one of the things she particularly doesn't like about you is that you are not Catholic. I had a Catholic MIL and was seen as not good either (although I was C of E). She just doesn't sound like a nice person (as mine wasn't either).

I really think that you need to tackle this gently with your DH - especially as he probably has his unreasonable mother in his ear. You need to be a united front especially if you're all going on holiday - which sounds like an awful idea to me! I'd calmly and gently ask him about his side and what his issues are - I think his issue is that you insist the children are Jewish and his mother is telling him that this is unreasonable and so he's either being goaded into going up against you by MIL or he doesn't like the fact that you 'insist'. So I'd suggest to him that he could take the children to church on important Catholic dates - because the chances are he just wants to feel he 'could' take them to church but won't actually ever bother. This way he feels listened to and you can make things more positive between you before moving onto MIL.......

Personally I think the holiday is a terrible idea. MIL doesn't like you and why would anyone go on holiday with someone who doesn't like them? I think you need to gently tell your DH what happened on your wedding day and tell him you feel that MIL doesn't like you because you are Jewish and that it's really upsetting you - channel your upset rather than your anger. Hopefully he will take your side and you can work out together how to navigate the holiday.

The problem you have is if after all this he is siding with your MIL and makes you out to be the problem. I think if he just gets angry and insulting and says you are the problem them you should withdraw from the holiday because going on holiday with him and his mother is likely to be completely unbearable.