Thinking my in laws are antisemitic and my DH needs to grow a pair

[ShirleyTemple73]

Ok so this is a long one…

I’m Jewish, DH non practicing catholic, raised by VERY strict catholic parents.

We’ve been married for 15 years, I was only 19 when we met. From day one I’ve always been clear that although im not at all religious, my Jewish culture is very important to me and I would only marry someone not Jewish if our kids were raised Jewish (not half jewish half anything else, I wanted my kids to be raised as just jewish). My husband agreed from day one, he obviously could have said no and that would have been fine- but it’s always been an important factor in the family I wanted. We now have three girls, we don’t do much jewish at home but they go to jewish summer camps, want bat mitzvah’s, we celebrate the festivals and they have strong jewish identities. They know their dad and half their family is Christian, they go to a Christian school, they celebrate Christmas with his family, but they know that they are jewish.

From day one, his family has given me weird vibes. We wanted a rabbi at our wedding - we both agreed, it was all booked, and they threw a fit. Refused to come if there was a rabbi there. My husband sided with them and I backed down, but probably should have seen this as a red flag. They’re very passive so making a big fuss was uncharacteristic.

On our wedding day, my MIL went to church first where she accidentally told my catholic uncle (clearly didn’t realise who he was) that she was devastated her son was marrying a Jew. He was shocked and told me this a few weeks later. For 15 years I’ve never mentioned this to my husband. Partly to not impact his relationship with his family. Mainly, if I’m honest, out of fear he would side with them not me.

Fast forward to today, their weird vibe towards anything jewish has continued. It’s more a discomfort on their part whenever anything Jewish comes up. One of my daughters even noticed my MIL seemed weird when she showed her her magen David necklace. SIL also has same weird vibe. It’s hard to really explain, nothing super offensive, but it’s not in my imagination. I’ve tried to ignore it.

Since 7 October I’ve felt more strongly about my Jewish identity. I’ve noticed this makes DH uncomfortable too. He could tolerate very low level Judaism, but noticing my strong connection to my Jewish identity and strong feelings about antisemitism since then, he’s not been particularly nice. When I post on social media he tells me things like he’s worried for my mental health which feels like gaslighting, my mental health is fine… Also DH is very left wing, so has said some less than understanding things about the conflict, which he’s pretty ignorant on overall. He’s also started to mention on a few occasions how unfair it is to his culture that the kids are raised Jewish. Which makes me very upset because I’ve always been clear about this - he didn’t have to marry me if he felt like this, 15 years and three kids later seems a bit late to bring it up.

His family have said nothing to me (I have family in Israel which they know) not even a happy Chanukah (which tbf they never say, it’s just bothered me more this year). Think they could have at least checked in once.

We’re all due to spend Xmas together on a 10 day long holiday. Not sure I’ll be able to keep my feelings to myself.

AIBU thinking DH and his family are antisemitic? Any suggestions on raising this with DH? Or is that totally pointless? Am I just being unreasonable in general?

Honestly the issue with the Rabbi would have been a red flag. you made your views clear and he stomped on them at the first hurdle.

Someone once asked me if i would marry someone who wasn't Jewish if they agreed to raise the kids jewish. i said no, I don't want someone whose "ok" with raising the kids jewish, i want them to WANT to raise the kids jewish. even if they agree to at first what's to stop them changing their mind and what happens if we divorce or i die? Are they going to stick to it.

I think you were very young and naive when you met and married and thought the world could work even if his family were already like this. But it doesn't. I am not saying intermarriages can't work - they do and i know many many happy mixed faith couples - but there needs to be respect of the culture and religion which it doesn't seem there is here. seems your husband was very yeah yeah yeah about it and didn't think of what it meant long term.

You need to sit down and talk to your husband about how you are feeling and possibly seek some marital councelling. Only then can you move forward and knowing what to do.

PS those saying cos she's not religious she can't raise her kids Jewish clear don't understand what it is to be Jewish and the culture and heritage that come with it.

I can't believe you have never told your husband about the comment your MIL made to your Uncle! How on earth have you kept that in? I would say from this that they are clearly anti-semitic...religions should respect one another and the fact that she threw a hissy fit about the Rabbi at your wedding and stopped this happening is really shocking. I can't work out how your husband ever agreed the children would be Jewish. He obviously didn't understand the impact of that at the time when it came to his side of the family.

People saying that the in-laws have the right to feel upset are misguided. They don't have any right at all and if they're concerned their GCs may literally go to hell, as non-baptised, then they are being far too literal with their own religion. It sounds as though their GC are being raised with good values and as part of a community which is the most beneficial and real part of any religion or culture.

Totally get what you're saying about Jewish identity being much more than religion. A super simple example of this is that many non-religious British people celebrate Christmas - their reasons to celebrate aren't embedded in Christianity...they do it because it's part of British culture.

You need your husband to be onside - I couldn't bear for my DH to not understand such a fundamental part of me. I think you need to be clear that all you need is for your In-Laws to respect your religion rather than continuously react to it in passive-aggressive ways. It sounds as though they do have an issue and MIL and SIL at least are talking and judging you about this behind your back. I would be raging at their terrible behaviour and your husband needs to be behind you. It's a really emotional time right now so I would probably try to avoid any potentially explosive conversations....tolerating them for such a long time over the holidays is going to be a real feat for you and far beyond what many could endure!

I feel for you OP. My two daughters both have non Jewish husbands/partners. My two grandsons know they are Jewish but none of us practices any religion at all other than celebrate the major festivals. Its the ethnicity and culture that we encourage in our family even more so since 7/10.
In your position I'd definitely have the discussion with your husband prior to spending a 10 day holiday with your in-laws.
My ex husband/father to my children is Jewish but my long term partner is not. He knows a lot about the Middle East and history in general. He has been 100% supportive which has been a great relief. I'm not sure at all if I could stay with him if he or his family exhibited any sign of antisemitism.

Wow this thread is getting very anti-Catholic.

For any very religious parent, your child marrying someone of a very different faith is difficult. MiL's religion will tell her that her grandkids cannot go to heaven, that must be hard for her.

Some slightly not understanding but I haven't seen anything "vile".

That post has now been deleted.

It sounds like current events have brought a lot of things to the surface and you need to sit down with your DH and have a really thorough chat about everything he's said which has upset you.

It also sounds like your girls are allowed to embrace both cultures if you're about to celebrate Christmas with his family and you should point this out.

Report it then, if you have such a problem with Jewish people talking about anti-Semitism.

@SomeCatFromJapan there was nothing vile about what I said, at least we know which side mumsnet is on

The OP feels more strongly since the attack on Israelis, particularly Jews, on the 7th.
If you can't separate your feelings from one horrendous act with another this likely isn't a thread you'll add value to.

It only appears to be one group of posters who can't grasp this, those who support Israel no matter what. Everyone is against hamas, there has been no posts at all I've seen in support of hamas. But 7th Oct does not mean BN can go to the far right and tbh totally against traditional Jewish ideals, remember massive protests against this gov who funded hamas and seeded division themselves which is pretty far aware from the Jewish culture of Kibbutz and acceptance of other Abrahams religions and democracy and all night study on religious days, theological discussion etc.

And I strongly refute and reject any accusation I am being antisemitic. Israel right now does not represent Judaism.

@TriOptimim no, I don't and op's concerns are valid but why mention the 7th of October?

I think @SwordToFlamethrower is right. It's not about you being Jewish. It's about you not being catholic. And you clearly feel similarly in that you felt so strongly about wanting to raise your children Jewish. You wanted that strong cultural and heritage connection with them and I think she just wanted the same thing with her son/grandkids and was sad that she wasn't going to get that.

Not wishing you happy Chanukah is abit off, they could have made an effort to learn about their DIL's cultural holidays. But I don't think it's a deliberate slight and unless you wish them happy Easter/lent (basically all the smaller catholic holidays, Christmas is abit different because it's so embedded in our lives) I think it's abit of 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. And sometimes that's just how it is. My family is Hindu and my IL's don't wish me happy Diwali, and my MIL is Spanish and it doesn't cross my mind to send her well wishes on the national day of Spain. There's no Ill intent, we're just so far removed from that part of each other's lives that it doesn't cross our mind (she's half Spanish and DP lived here all his life so doesn't really identify with being Spanish, and I'm half Hindu and celebrate Diwali with my mums half of the family, so we've just never crossed over in those areas).

It does sound like maybe you just don't like each other very much. And that's not to say you even strongly dislike each other, just that the only thing you have in common is your DH and otherwise you'd never have reason or want to know one another. It happens, you don't have to be best friends, just rub along politely.

So no I'm not so sure they are antisemitic. More just disappointed that their son turned away from their faith. And whilst they could definitely make more of an effort I'm sure the same could be said for all. But a blow up over Xmas definitely won't help.

Op said 7th Oct and her husband has left wing views implying they disagree about Israels response strongly.

Because she has family I'm a place that experienced a huge terror attack and that has understandably had an effect on her?

"It's fine because she's Catholic" is the stupidest excuse for anti-Semitism I've ever seen.

I'm not here to cause trouble. But as @Boomboom22 said, this is how I read the op

If Judaism is a culture more than a religion for you (fair enough), I think it’s only fair that your DH’s culture is granted equal footing. He maybe didn’t really understand that before you got married because you’re not religious yourself and lots of people don’t understand Jewish culture.

Not the same as there isn’t a war currently happening but my DH is (republic of) Irish Catholic and my family are Scottish CofE/atheists. Our children are not being raised with religion because I’m atheist and DH is ‘optimistically agnostic’ but they know they are from an Irish Catholic background and have been baptised. They also know they’re Scottish and religion is not a big part of our lives like it is for MIL and FIL. They’re encouraged to embrace both cultures and both families are respected in this. FIL was disappointed that we didn’t get married in a church but it was our wedding and we did what we wanted. If DH had felt strongly about getting married in a church, I would have done it for him.

I don’t think your PIL are wrong to feel sad that their culture is being sidelined but if that’s coming across as anti-semitism, they’re being unreasonable. I think you need to have a calm and open discussion with your DH about how you’re going to move forward from this because you have children together and need to agree how to raise them.

OP we have the same marriage background but brought kids up differently, because while my Jewish ethnicity is important to me I've never practised and the culture has never been a big part of my life (although I'm feeling much more connected recently). But my absolutely lovely and very godly Catholic MIL is the opposite to yours and she would be ecstatic if I embraced Judaism more (any religion really)! My DH I can only describe as lapsed/semi-practising but was raised strictly. He certainly has more 'faith' than I do as a firm atheist. He's also left wing but has been very switched on about antisemitism amongst the left for a long time, which does help a lot.

I think it sounds like your husband's family, while perhaps not explicitly antisemitic are deeply prejudiced nevertheless and I can see why some are saying it's crossing into explicit antisemitic terrain to be honest. The conversation with your uncle certainly was! I'm really not sure how you can navigate this without having some very uncomfortable conversations and possibly even making some concessions to allow your kids to embrace his culture more than they may already do. But for him to say bringing them up Jewish is "unfair to his culture" is just nonsense. You made it clear from the outset, but I think there could be room for some compromise.

It was an unfounded accusation against the OP and completely irrelevant to the thread.

I think it's fairly common for religious people to feel sad if their offspring / descendants are a different religion to them. It seems a bit hypocritical of you to label them antisemitic for this, when you openly say that you would also be upset if your children are a different religion to you.

This, OP.

Will you feel even a little disappointed if, in the future, your grandchildren are raised in a faith/culture other than Jewish? If you do feel this, would you consider yourself anti-Catholic or anti-Muslim or whatever?

Most people want to pass on their culture to their offspring and family. That doesn't mean they hate other cultures and religions.

However, it would be nice if the ILs made more of an effort now I agree.

You may not realise but many/most Irish people of your husband's generation would not be very (or at all) religious but still consider themselves culturally Catholic. It's a very commonly used phrase. So it isn't just something that Jewish people experience. I think you may not have realised this and your husband may not have realised it either until more recently.

You ARE here to cause trouble.

You have completely ignored the fact that October 7th happened and has had a horrendous impact on Jews all over the world, and made them more aware of their Jewishness and how anti semitic many people are, because you are focussing on Israeli government's response to that attack. You think that the response of the Israeli government negates anyone's right to have been profoundly affected by October 7th.

Also, as this post has now been moved to Jewish Mumsnetters anyone who was on it before it was moved and cannot be respectful should please leave this post now.

OP, did DH's family give a reason why they didn't want a rabbi at the marriage ceremony?

Because my understanding is that canon law doesn’t permit ceremonies like this in a Catholic Church. I'm not an expert so check it out yourself, but as far as I know a rabbi (or other religious ministers) can't participate in a Catholic marriage ceremony in a Catholic church.

Certain dispensations can be granted and arrangements made, but I don't think it's as simple as adding a rabbi to already organised Catholic Mass (you said it was all booked). So perhaps that didn't happen not because your ILs didn't want it to, but because it wasn't allowed.

Did the priest or rabbi discuss it with you at the time?