ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 10

[Gardenlady543]

Last thread is maxed out... happy for anyone new to join to chat about anything ERA EMMA ALICE or pretty much anything else fertility investigations and treatment related

@2021ivfagain @Enfys23 @clhiu @CailinInUK @Loz2467 @Mybabydream @ChickenT2b @kerrym87 @Sar1010 @thislittlebird @APSR @VenusStarr
@Dochas12111 @SallyLovelady @Lyrabee @Lauralozzle @Sera9 @Twigg12 @Wren123 @Summerishere83 @Vicky81B

@Dotty1988 have you joined the fb group infertility and repeated implantation failure (RIF) support ?
Lots of good info there on what had worked for people, main things people find are: endometriosis, even if there is no sign of it a lap at this point is very useful, immune issues and people also find they benefit from modified natural FET rather than medicated.

@Gardenlady543 thank you I will take a look at the group. I have had a mix of different transfers done already. I am hoping something comes up on my blood tests as this is our last chance

Thanks @Gardenlady543it was on the fertilysis report. Meeting Dr Gorgy next week. Clinic who requested the test aren’t expert in immune. I’m gutted today as first embryo banking cycle been cancelled. Had 3cm cyst/lead follicle raced ahead and its affecting growth of rest plus made lining weird so seems hormones out of whack. Oestrogen priming didn’t bring into sync. Money and time lost again. Not sure if should try antagonist in luteal phase to try and stop early recruitment or even try a long protocol but finance and time feel so pressured now.

@Gardenlady543 thanks so much!
I've never used a menstrual cup... any recommendations for a newbie, which would be good to so the Fertilysis tests with?

@sotif I honestly can't get on with menstrual cups at all, so any of them lol. You don't actually need one, they said squat over a sample pot and just collect a few drops, but I have very light flow and if you bear down you can end up collecting urine!

@Enfys23 oh no that's so annoying :(
Gorgy will be helpful for the immune interpretation.

Sorry @Enfys23 to hear your news. I have had a cancelled cycle before due to a cyst. I seem to be quite cysty. Did your clinic do a baseline scan initially? My old clinic didn't but current clinic does and normally when they see a cyst on the baseline scan (every cycle so far!) they do a blood test first to check if it's a hormone producing one.

@Gardenlady543 I actually wasn't sure which type of hysterscopy so I asked my clinic today and they've sent me the leaflets. Basically if they see a fibroid, scarring etc they remove it there and then. Assuming that is an operative one? I know it sounds bad but part of me is hoping they find something just so we have something to fix, rather than the concept that we just make crappy embryos. I am already on the immune protocol so it's not that.

@lemons44 thank you! They didn’t want to do a baseline this time (because day 1 was in weekend I think) but I am going to raise this at the review!

How is your ear? Most ear infections are viral and don’t need antibiotics. So I hope it resolves over a few days and you don’t have to mess your microbiome around.

I am sorry your cycle was cancelled. It sucks. My hysteroscopy was fine. It was done because of my thin lining issues. It was diagnostic one in that they didn’t find anything. All normal 🤷🏻‍♀️I found it much less painful than the biopsy and I had it done awake. Hope goes well x

@lemons44 yes that sounds like operative. There are some diagnostic ones that can be done awake with thinner equipment. In USA I spoke with someone whose clinic did one of the diagnostic ones before every FET cycle. Did you see a reproductive immunologist, there are different immune protocols, they need to be tailored for results really. I spent a lot with my immune specialist having tests and the protocol.

Hi @Enfys23 @Gardenlady543 ear was ok in the end thank goodness. I think it cleared itself in a few days.

I had my biopsy and hysterescopy yesterday. It wasn't as bad as I thought but I've had bleed and cramping since, which they said was normal.

The hysterscopy didn't show anything which was good. However the doctor did say my lining looked a bit thin. Although he said he can see from my last US scan 6 days ago that it was ok (it was 6.5mm then) and hysterscopy isn't always the best indicator of thickness.

I feel very worried now. My linning got to 6.5mm on the day before starting progesterone as I struggle to get it thick and normally my linning can only get 6.5 to 7.5. I just hope the results do not come back as inconclusive.

I will be gutted if I had a cancelled mock December then done it again in January for it to be inconclusive!

Does anyone know how common it is to get inconclusive results and why this may be? I remember my constant saying in can happen but that was during my initial consultation about it months and months ago so I have forgotten.

I am feeling the effects of all the hormones this week so may be flapping.

How are you both?

@lemons44
my lining was only 5.2mm on the cycle I did my TRIOME biopsy and still had full results for all tests so I’m sure it’ll be okay! 🤞🏼

back to drawing board with this cancelled cycle can’t believe lost nearly £3000 with it.

Gosh I am so sorry @Enfys23 it is so frustrating.

I am not sure if this makes you feel any better but on my first ever IVF cycle, my clinic didn't do a baseline scan (I have since learned I am a very cysty person). Anyway I had a 'lead follicle' that was shooting ahead of my other follicles, which the nurses began to suspect was a cyst. It was about 29mm I think whilst the others were about 11-15mm. I believe the cyst was sucking up all the stims. Eventually it got to trigger time. I honestly think the cyst also sucked up all the trigger. I ended up with 13 eggs but 10 were immature. I was 31 at the time. From the 3 left that were mature, on didn't survive past day 2 so I suspect was also too immature. we didn't get any blasts. I honestly believe it was the cyst that totally ruined that cycle for us. So as frustrating as it is at least you didn't go all the way to egg collection to have a super poor result. Xx

Thanks for your message regarding lining, that makes me feel better.

@lemons44 thank you oh absolutely though the thing that really stressed me was that I had to make the call. Clinic said could stim longer for 14+ days and see if cohort grew. But I have only ever stimmed once longer than 10 days and like you had lots more eggs then but poor quality and no blasts so wasn’t willing to risk losing the money and all the heartache. But I don’t think I should have had to make call. The cyst was over 30mm and growing and the other ovary also had one well over 28mm.

I am hoping I get some ideas on how we avoid lead follicles being recruited too early - have you found a protocol to help?

Hi. I hope its OK to jump back on here for some support. I won't repeat all my history again but going into a final ever fet soon after two years of problems having frozen the embryo. Consultant has kind of thrown a spanner in the works and given me the option of 3dsis or hysteroscopy prior to doing this. Though he admitted these tests might be bordering obsessive because I had a hysteroscopy last March and there were no issues yet staed that hysteroscopy of gold standard of testing. Whilst the body can change since last March, I don't have any symptoms I know of like irregular bleeds for example. And ideally I'd rather not be sedated for the tenth time. So I'm thinking just 3dsis as a little back up. I dont want to feel like i havent done everything in my power but it feels a bit unecessary to do the hysteroscopy again, and i know it's my decision at the end of the day but I guess I'm looking for support on this. Thank you🙏

@Gardenlady543
@or anyone who can help.
I have started progynova for embryo transfer cycle. I asked nurse if I can use balance activ for 7 days after bleed like I usually do and she said yes but its best not to as you are using other things vaginally it best not to and when I asked why she said it can cause thrush. Is this correct or is she wrong because I thought the whole point of balance activ Is to stop things like thrush. ?!

Hi everyone, I am looking for some advice and this thread seems a great source of information! I’ve read through a lot of the info on different Emma/alice/era tests but can anyone advise on where they’re actually getting these done please? Don’t anyone know is there anywhere to get these don’t in Northern Ireland or has everyone else has theirs in england? Thanks in advance for any advice!

@Prayformiracles I used it with probiotics and Vagibiom on its own before transfer. I did take canesbalance or balance activ with vaginal probiotics. They were confused about probiotics I was taking. In the end, I just asked my consultant and he said it was fine. I stopped on transfer day and 4 days afterwards. I restarted with flora femme. Then two weeks afterwards restarted with Vagibiom.

With regards to hysteroscopy, my consultant wanted me to have it as my lining was always thick but that was due to progynova. When I did a natural frozen modified transfer with stims, my lining was ok. I turned down hysteroscopy as I also could not afford it. I did have two 3d sis scans but purely because of contained products from miscarriage.

Good luck

@Prayformiracles I used canesflor with canesbalance or balance activ before transfer.

@2021ivfagain thank you for replying.
I just don't understand why they have told me that using too many vaginal things can cause thrush when the very point of balance activ is to help with that sort of thing. I'm happy for their advice when they explain the logic but when they just just throw our advice without explaining I sometimes find it hard not to question whether they are wrong or right... probably because I have had various mixed messages about different things from the nursing team over the years.
I'm still now unsure whether to stop balmace activ or keep using it for the 7 days post-period bleed.
My Consultant had a new secretary who so far has been unresponsive for the past week. I hope she gets better!
I'm definitely going to continue with vagibiom until at least a week before transfer.
Hope your pregnancy is going well .

Does anyone know is it ok to continue on optibac during the 2ww? It says suitable during pregnancy so I assumed it would be fine but everyone seems to be stopping the probiotics after transfer! Thanks in advance

@Prayformiracles the only time I wouldn't use it is around transfer time, in case it upsets the pH needed. I would just use it at a different time to other vaginal meds.

@TSHconfusion I used oral and vaginal every day, I just stopped the vaginal for a few days around the transfer time.

@Gardenlady543 thanks for your response! I’m only taking oral so will just continue with them

@Prayformiracles It’s because vaginal ph can get lower but if you are taking norethisterone or something similar this can cause a higher ph. Anything higher than 4.5 can cause bv. I was fine taking Vagibiom before transfer and canesflor with balance activ. My consultant even recommended when I was worried to take two canesbalance or balance activ a day (one in morning and evening). I’m nearly 26 weeks and have gone back to vaginal probiotics sometimes Flora Femme plus balance activ in morning and Vagibiom at night. When I was preparing for transfer, as I was on so much norethisterone this time and could feel ph getting high I even took 3 balance activ a day spaced out a month before transfer. It worked.

I even took Vagibiom the night before my transfer. Then stopped for 4 days.

@Prayformiracles Also when it comes to using cyclogest I found it better to do this rectally as absorption was better. If you need to go toilet and the pessary comes out, I used to put another one in. I also read that higher progesterone levels at transfer are good for people with low nk cells in endometrium. Mine were very low so I had neupogen infusion and Hcg infusion but I did not have this for the transfer with my son (first born). I would say that CRGH always like progesterone above 100 on transfer day. Mine was 155 for my son in 2020 and 129 this time.

@Prayformiracles strictly speaking balance activ and canesbalance is for preventing and/or treating bv, not thrush. However, it also restores the good bacteria in your body as it’s a prebiotic. That’s why it works well with prebiotics at the same time. People tend to get thrush if oestrogen gets high and/or they have been on antibiotics.

@2021ivfagain thank you!
The nurse wrote this:
Vaginal medications can alter your vaginal PH which can increase the risk of things like bacteria vaginosis and thrush. Also the balance activ can negativelt impact on how your body is absorbing the progynova vaginally.
And another nurse said too many things vaginally can cause thrush.

I really don't know what advice to follow. And I have been too scared to use balance activ today. I was only intending on using it for 7 days post bleed then stop. I feel like the ladies on here including you often know better than the nurses but when you get nurse advice I wonder whether it's foolish not to listen. I really need my consultants input.

Re cyclogest I didn't know inserting rectally was an option. I was always told to take two orally three times per day. However I am having a progesterone test two days before transfer this time round to double check because I am going to be using lubion which I have never used before and need to ensure my body is fine with absorbing it.

Still fighting off a residual cough and really hoping it goes soon.
I can't remember how tired/sleepy all the progesterone makes you (and never had steroids) and how much childcare to try to arrange beforehand.