ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 7

[VenusStarr]

Hi all. We're on our 7th thread! Really hoping for some more positive news in the coming months.

So should I be using canesbalance along with vaginal probiotics?

@CailinInUK I did the flare at nearly 41 after getting covid and it was my worst cycle. I had a lot of follicles for my reserve 15-16, but egg quality suffered. The best one for me was at 40, but fsh was much lower and afc was 16-17 then. I did short cycle with cetrotide but then tried it a few months afterwards and had a lead follicle. Last cycle I did estrogen priming with hrt, wheatgrass, ubiquinol, dhea and no cetrotide but just had a indomethacin to stop ovulation. There was no suppression at all. It was a really good response and had 8 eggs collected, 6 mature, 3 fertilised normally and one blastocyst. Obviously, you would be better. At 40, I had 9 eggs collected, 8 mature, 7 fertilised at day 3 and they predict 3 blastocyst. This was my best cycle before egg quality nose dived.

@APSR yes, read this https://www.reddit.com/r/infertility/comments/rwsxwy/theuterineemicrobiomeemmaaliceemenstrualfluid/?utmmsource=share&utmmedium=iossapp&utm_name=iossmf

@Gardenlady543 Thanks for sharing the article. Will get balance activ/canesbalance and start these along with probiotics.Just want to confirm balance anctiv is once a day for 7 days right ? And during this 7 days I can take probiotics as well ? Can both be inserted before bedtime ? Any particular brand that you would recommend for vaginal pH testing kit ? Have never used this before

@APSR that's how I do it a balance activ and vaginal probiotic at the same time. Some of us here have ordered vagibiom from USA that is a all in one with the acid, probiotic and prebiotic.

Here are some ph sticks, it needs to be under 4.5:

Just Fitter Vaginal pH Test. pH Balance Test Strips for Women. This Vaginal pH Test Helps Detect BV Bacterial Vaginosis or Vaginal Infection. Feminine pH Test Strip, a Must Have for Womens pH Balance amzn.eu/d/dHyEtbp

Thanks 😊

Thank you @CailinInUK ❤
I'm sorry to hear what a rollercoaster stimm cycle you've had. You've been so brave and have done so well (I know how awful it is having to go back after graduating). Great news you have 2 top quality hatching blasts. I hope the PGT tests go well.
I don't know a lot about the different stimm cycle protocols, but what I can say from experience is that the LP worked better for me than the SP (both last year, age 39, lowish AMH). The follicles grew more evenly and I got more eggs and blasts. I did testosterone priming with the LP and I think that helped too. For egg quality, my consultant put me on 600mg CoQ10, 600mg Resveratrol, 500mg NMN. That seemed to help too. I got 5 blasts, of which 4 were good quality.
I'm turning 40 this year and finding that hard, so I think you're inspirational, so encouraging.
All the best with your review next week xx

Thank you @Gardenlady543 you're right, the small things aren't important. Its funny how your mind fixated on things like that.
I'm sorry you lost your water bottle though!
Definitely don't want a divert on the way home! That's useful got the fit to fly information, thank you.
I'm pretty sure he's having surgery today. As it's a new hospital I'm not sure of visiting. The last one were really good, not like home, you can just stroll in and sit there all day if you want. We've messaged a bit this morning but he's gone quiet now, so 🙏

Sorry I'm rubbish at keeping up to date. Hope everyone is doing well. Thinking of @Enfys23 @Faithhopelove83 and @seven201 in particular this week ❤️

Thank you @VenusStarr ❤
I hope all goes well with your DH's surgery today. Will be thinking if you xx

Thinking of you too @seven201 and hope all goes well with your scan. I know how anxious you must be. Sending hugs xx

@VenusStarr lol I know the water bottle being gone is a bit annoying, it was on its last leg to be honest after I broke the lid of one and the glass bottle of another I'd created a mix and match of the working parts and part of it kept coming off, but it was a good size. Nevermind I'll have to go water bottle shopping. Fingers crossed he's quiet as they're operating, keep us updated!

@seven201 good luck today🍀

On a different subject I stayed up late obsessing over avocados. UK avocados are so rubbish compared to the ones in LA and I think it's because they pick them too early. So I signed up to hopefully get a box of avocados that come straight from small farms in Africa which are picked at the perfect time apparently.

@seven201 thinking of you xx

Really hope all goes well @VenusStarr

I was feeling so restless and anxious this morning and don’t know what came over me as don’t usually test early but I did a FRER and stark BFN 7dp5dt. Feeling so down right now. Why did I do it?!? Should have just stayed in PUPO state! I’ll retest OTD on Sunday 11dp5dt but not feeling hopeful.

Oh @Enfys23 I'm sorry, seeing a negative test is the worse :(

@Gardenlady543 Saw a lot of negative reviews for just fitter vaginal pH test strips on amazon.Have u tried this one before ? Does it work well? Or do you know of any other brand which is better

@APSR all these tests are pretty much identical, it is just pH paper on a stick. I use these ones regularly as do others on here. They are the cheapest ones available and involve you rubbing a cotton bud on the wall of the vagina, then spreading it on the pH paper and reading the value against the chart on the box.

I previously used these more expensive ones which I got before this one was available.

One Step Thrush & Bacterial Vaginosis (BV) pH Rapid Test Device 10 Kits Self Testing amzn.eu/d/5vMjvrv

These come in a pack of 10 and the pH paper is embedded within a plastic stick. You are paying for the plastic, which enables you to put the pH paper directly into the vagina. It's a lot of plastic waste and extra money for this convenience.

I'm so sorry @Enfys23, that is gutting. It's still early days though, so I really hope it changes. Sending hugs xx

@Gardenlady543 Thanks again 👍
Im done with 7d antibiotics(which gave me thrush😢) so currently being treated for that (Canesten pessary and external cream).
Will be starting Canesten vaginal probiotics. Already on optibac oral probiotics for women.
Have ordered the pH strips and balance activ as well. Hopefully I’m not missing out anything.
Once I get my periods have to repeat the biopsy (bet day 14-21) to check for the levels of good bacteria.
This group is amazing. Thanks to all you lovely ladies for sharing your experiences.IVF is such an emotionally , physically , financially draining journey. It’s good to have a community like this to discuss and share what worked for us.
Good luck and best wishes to everyone 😊

@APSR if you would have been here before antibiotics I would have told you to alternate daily between a clotrimazole pessary 100mg or cream if you can't get them and vaginal probiotic while on the antibiotic alongside the oral probiotic that you need to try and space inbetween your antibiotic doses, that would hopefully have prevented the thrush you have got. But nevermind, it is what it is. You can't take fluconazole orally if you might be pregnant imminently, but if you have a bit of a wait while doing these investigations then if I were you I'd probably go and get an oral dose from the pharmacy to take to make sure you clear the thrush, it will work better than the topical treatments.

You will need at least a week without vaginal probiotics before the next biopsy, otherwise if will just pick up the ones you are putting in. I hope it come back normal, but I feel when the lab tell you to take co amoxiclav that it can require more treatment. This is what happened to me. The reason is because co amoxiclav is a broad spectrum which means your dysbiotic bacteria was probably a mix, and in my case one of the bacteria was gardnerella, this is a anaerobic bacteria and is better targeted by antibiotics aimed at this like metronidazole and clindamycin, so what happened in my case was the co amoxiclav wiped out the other dysbiotic bacteria and the gardnerella flourished. So I needed to them specifically target it. I find that Igenomix go with a bare minimum approach to treatment and it was only when I went at it with 12 days of 2 x antibiotics (including one that is considered the dettol of topical vaginal antibiotics) that I resolved the issue. As others on here will know I'm always telling people to just go all at it with treatment for an abnormal microbiome, otherwise the situation can really drag out.

@Gardenlady543 My period is due next due. Once I get my periods can I take fluconazole? Is it available OTC ?

@Enfys23 ❤️ sending love. Don't be hard on yourself. I'm keeping everything crossed that it was just a bit early.

Surgery definitely happening today 🙌 I'm with him now.

@APSR if you have tried to conceive then take it on CD1 with your period. Yes OTC, just walk up to any pharmacy and say you want it.

Hmm re your results lots of atopbium and gardnerella, both involved in BV and targeted with anaerobic antibiotics, I'm not sure if coamoxlciav would clear it, I mean it might, but is better targeted with treatment aimed at anaerobic bacteria. They gave you co amoxiclav because of the strep, especially as this is a bacteria associated with endometritis so it's important to get rid of it.

If this was me and my result, I would do a course of anaerobic antibiotics right after the co amoxiclav. You can order from an online pharmacy which would mean saying you have symptoms of BV, and you do technically have BV. You could do metronidazole or vaginal clindamycin, or both. You can get them from here: www.theindependentpharmacy.co.uk

It's obviously up to you, but if it were me I'd take at least 7 days of one of them, you can extend to 10 or 14 days if you want, this time alternating with a vaginal probiotics and antifungal. Then do 2 weeks of daily vaginal probiotics, first 7 days with a vaginal acid product and then plan to repeat the biopsy for the cycle after.

Now you might get lucky and have treated it and get a really good micirobiome with what you've done, but I didn't and I wasted a euploid embryo and months of time hoping the first minimal course would work.

Thinking of you @VenusStarr I hope the op goes well!

@Gardenlady543 So your Lactobacillus levels went up once gardnerella was treated with metronidazole and using vaginal probiotics?

Hi. I’m feeling anxious about my FET transfer. My cold is getting better so my consultant is confident my nk cells in the blood will normalise quickly. I felt great when taking antibiotics, increasing oral probiotics with digestive enzymes and then this week I’ve been on garlic tablets with oral probiotics, digestive enzymes and using boric acid thrush pessaries for second week. I did add in thrush cream once a day as well but started norethisterone now and ph is feeling not so great.

I’m back on kefir and will add in canesbalance and vaginal probiotics. I’m wondering whether to go on optibac as well? I did find a really good probiotic from
US which works quickly but is not safe in pregnancy so avoided it. Has anyone had success with oral probiotics? I’ve been on them for months. The only ones which have worked are ibs ones.

As gardnerella or atopobium vaginae seem to be my only issues, I’m wondering whether to use Flora Femme intensely for 2-3 weeks.

My counsellor is brilliant but feels I should get on with the transfer but I was almost relieved it was cancelled only because I could treat atopobium vaginae.

I still have fluomizin but wondered if I should avoid this?

I’ve also cut out sugar from my diet. Did not have much anyway. I rarely have 100% dark chocolate but found out it is a good prebiotic.

There are lots of probiotic foods I have thought about having, but sauerkraut triggered ibs. I have tempeh and kefir but thought about kombucha. Are these safe after transfer?

Sorry for long post. I did purchase an Invivo test today as I want to know if atopobium vaginae has come down. This was the only thing detected. Can it impede implantation?

I know @Gardenlady543 talks about microbiome changing in two days. Therefore, I should be taking vaginal probiotics until 2 days before, but I’m having neupogen infusion on first day of progesterone for low nk cells in endometrium. I don’t want to jeopardise anything. The only thing I worry about is my vaginal microbiome as my consultant has agreed to increase my progesterone medication slightly.

@APSR

April 2021
EMMA- 0% lactobacillus plus a load of different bacteria
Treatment- coamoxcilav for 7 days followed by vaginal probiotics

Went straight into a transfer with euploid embryo, no implantation

October 2021
Repeated EMMA after the failed FET
EMMA- 0% lactobacillus, mostly gardnerella
Treated with around 12 days oral metronidazole 400mg three times a day and vaginal clindamycin followed by vaginal probiotics.

November 2021 went straight into a FET cycle with a euploid embryo, no implantation. Menstrual fluid (lining from FET) sent to fertilysis- normal microbiome

@2021ivfagain I can't see any harm in optibac, you are doing so much to try and keep a normal microbiome. Regarding oral probiotics there is good evidence for strains lactobacillus rhamnosus, gr-1 and lactobacillus reuteri, rc-14. When people criticise oral probiotics eg those yogurt drinks the mostly say they don't think the bacteria survive past the stomach, I have heard good things about symprove though. As far as I'm aware the foods you discussed are safe, only thing to watch is some can creep up with alcohol levels, although I'm sure the amount of alcohol actually present will be quite small. I used to have my own water kefir. Maybe look at getting a few flora femme bottles and do the last 6 days of vaginal probiotics that you do before transfer as these ones, they really are full of good bacteria.

@seven201 any news?

Hi all.

@Gardenlady543 not yet, the scan is tomorrow morning. Thanks to everyone else who sent their wishes too. My resting heart rate has gone down significantly though, but I have cut down on metformin (phasing out from a high dose due to low b12) so hoping it's linked to that. No bleeding, but I didn't have that with the last MC. I'm glad you had a good holiday (despite the bumpy start!). Do you feel revived a bit?

@VenusStarr I'm so glad your dh is FINALLY getting the op. Shocking that it's taken this long. You need a holiday to recover from the holiday! Keep us posted.

@Enfys23 you are definitely not out yet. Hang in there, it's such an an awful wait.

Sorry, I'm not managing to keep up with everyone right now I'm afraid. Love to all.

Thank you ♥️ he's had the op and I've spoken to the doctor who said he's OK and it went as planned (he'll need more surgery in the UK in the next 3-6 months) but he's still not come back to the room yet. I'll feel better when I can see him.

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow @seven201 I know how awful the wait between scans can be and you flit between hope and sadness and everything inbetween. Keeping everything crossed for good news xx