ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread #6

[Gardenlady543]

@Janefx40 @birdbybird @seven201 @Gardenlady543 @patientpatient @MyEasterEggs @thislittlebird @Yuliaaa @Violette22 @2021ivfagain @OrangeBengal @Enfys23 @Loz2467 @DEIVF @Hopeful199 @ER12 @greendress789 @Douchas12111 @Lori2022 @AdviceForJane @Anonbaby @Molls87 @ChickenT2b @GoldenElephant @IVF22 @StillTrying10000 @warrior101 @whatcangowrong @Yaynayokay

Oh yes it really has happened we are onto thread #6.

All are welcome to join us, we started out as people interested in ERA EMMA ALICE but we seem to have had every test available between us.

So if you want to know about the microbiome, reproductive immunology or you just feel your case is complicated and what like minded people to talk to about it you've come to the right place

Just checking in. Thanks @Gardenlady543

@Gardenlady543 thanks for the suggestion that I detest. i did a vagina swab which showed I have cleared the ureaplasma but still have gardnerella though not at the level to have BV currently. We have decided to go ahead with a transfer next cycle and hope the improvements make a difference 🤞🤞🤞So hard to know what to do isn’t it x

Hi all, longtime since I've been here.
I'm doing ERA cycle at the moment. Sometimes I don't manage to take my three times a day progyna on time... do you think this is a big issue?

Great news @Lori2022 maybe take a daily vaginal probiotic for a few days/during the cycle that should help resolve the small amount of garnderalla they found.

Yes I will do that thank you. I’m still following the vagina protocol my nutritionist gave me but she’s told me to stop on cycle day 1. I will do a cheeky day of it straight after my period to ensure things are in order😛

Hi @warrior101 as in the estradiol, I don't think it's that important to take it at exact times. As long as you take the same amount each day at roughly even time periods it should be fine.

Hi all! Thread 6!!! I started thread 1 a long long time ago now. May thread six be the one that makes lots of healthy babies!!

Thanks for the add. Just marking my spot so I get updates 💛

Thank you very much for adding me and for all the advice people have given me so far. Can I ask Is it possible to keep taking vaginal probiotics continuously? Even after I have finished the seven day course. And can I do this this through the FET process? Thank you for all your help x

Thanks for adding me @Gardenlady543

How are you doing @thislittlebird? I’ve been thinking about you.

@IVF22 after the course you could reduce it down to a couple of times a week. You can take daily in your transfer cycle. In this research protocol they plan to have their participants take a daily vaginal probiotic during their transfer cycle until the date of the first scan if they're successful (https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/10/10/e035866.abstract)

Thank you for the add 😊 @Gardenlady543

Feel fortunate to have found this thread and glad I posted for the first time yesterday. Lots of knowledge and reassurance here.

One more question from me that I have been wondering/ reading about for a while… a small dose of aspirin whilst TTC / in early pregnancy, a big no-no unless you have confirmed clotting issues, or harmless to take even if you don’t? How do you get tested for clotting issues?

TIA all.

@ER12 i had the thrombophilia screen bloods that check clotting issues. Cost £480. I ended up taking aspirin anyway for my last FET because I read that synthetic estrogen can make blood stickier. I have no idea if any truth to this and didn’t get a clear answer from my clinic.

Thanks @Gardenlady543

@Lori2022 it is absolutely true that oral oestrogen can increase risk of blood clots. I’ve been wearing some snazzy compression socks during cycles to try and reduce risk!

Biopsy day tomorrow. They’ve just let me know today that they will do mock transfer too. I think this will help me feel better ahead of next transfers as my last two weren’t straightforward (I apparently have quite a kink between my cervix and uterus, and they’ve had change catheter etc), and I know that a smooth easy transfer is a huge factor in success. I will hopefully have a chance to ask about the hysteroscopy date tomorrow. At the point of the cancelled FET last month the fertility nurse pushed for me to get an NHS referral for this part as she was horrified we are paying for everything despite being eligible for NHS (for newcomers to the thread, we were warned because our local health board make you wait another full year from point of fertility assessments to start IVF treatment, my AMH might have dropped too low to be eligible!! Cruel irony) and knows how expensive it is (plus with us moving house and husband just starting new business etc, not an easy time). So my GP was amazing and got a referral off the same day direct to consultant’s email address as advised. But now nothing happening. I am going to say we’ll scrape the money and pay privately if not happening ASAP as I don’t want more and more delay, especially with my AMH issue. Already wait from October’s cancelled cycle to January as next potential FET (providing can get hysteroscopy done before then) is feeling a hugely long wait.

@IVF22 I take a daily probiotic anyway (even before starting fertility stuff) because I suffer recurrent thrush and found the Optibac intimate flora one really helped, so I’ve continued with this. I don’t think it would do any harm to take a normal dose of probiotic regularly.

@ER12 I’d be nervous about taking medication like aspirin without discussing it with consultant. I’ve also had tendency to gastritis in past and tend to get it when stressed as I guess I make more acid, so I wouldn’t want to add in aspirin which can cause stomach ulcers etc in worst case scenario without some medical supervision. It’s definitely not entirely risk free.

Sorry if I’ve missed anyone. Work been hectic. Hope everyone else doing okay.

Oh and amen to that @seven201 ❤️

Hey @ER12, I was prescribed 75mg of aspirin and 20mg of clexane daily from the day after my transfer. This was part of a kitchen sink protocol (5th cycle) where they threw everything at me because they didn’t really know why it wasn’t working. I stopped the aspirin as soon as I got a positive test and expect to be on the clexane for the full first trimester, but they’ll confirm this for sure at my viability scan next week. As far as I’m aware there is no test to see if aspirin / clexane are needed. There I wasn’t keen to take it but after a conversation with my consult I relented and I’m glad I did.

Feeling quite devastated this morning. The lining has regressed again to near 3mm. The dr still went ahead with biopsy but who knows if it’ll be a good enough sample.
They were concerned my lining isn’t responding and also had a chat about my two fresh cycles and they’ve mentioned possible premature ovarian failure. They’re not sure mini stimulation will help the lining as my ovaries can’t seem to respond well and have mentioned viagra as option. They agreed may as well tick box and get hysteroscopy done but didn’t think we’ll find much in that. Said they’d discussed with other drs at MDT and get back to me. I feel really distraught that even with high dose oestrogen lining is so shit and the mention of POF has scared me massively. Can’t stop crying and my husband’s away with work too right now.

I'm sorry @Enfys23 my lining compacts a lot of progesterone as well, it's harder to measure at this time and so they only go by the measurement before progesterone but mine has just measured at 8.4mm and I know post ovulation it will be down to around 5mm. This is super frustrating when lining is needed for biopsies. ERA EMMA ALICE like 10mm of tissue but I know from the menstrual fluid test I had that the assessment of bacteria RNA can be done on very tiny amounts of substance (e.g they only wanted a couple of drops). I also know the lab that does receptiva didn't want a minimum amount at all they just said as long as it sinks in the liquid rather than floating at the top that it will be fine. So I really hope they have enough but there isn't anything you can do to change the situation now, it will be frustrating if you have to do this again, but this is all part of putting the puzzle together. It was an issue getting a biopsy that I had last year that started me down the avenue of getting a hysteroscopy which was an important step in my journey.

For the lining issues I think a hysteroscopy will be very useful, if this comes back showing no issues there are other avenues to explore, such as a modified unmedicated cycle with letrozole and mild dose stims.

I am also sorry that alongside this very stressful day your specialists brought up the stimulation protocol because it's so much that you had to deal with without hearing about this as well. What happened in your collection cycles?

Thanks @Gardenlady543 that’s so reassuring to know it might be sufficient. I’ve had some time to take a deep breath and you’re right there will be options, and I think we do have to push for certain things eg hysteroscopy and for them to think about every aspect.

prior to 1st stim cycle the consultant was hopeful based on my initial tests (AMH was low within normal range for age though) that we’d get around 8 eggs maybe more. But then we only had 4 follicles and 1 collected. That miraculously fertilised and made it to 4AB blast. But no implantation. Then 2nd stims they did androgen priming with tostran and ramped up stims to the max and still only 4 follicles of right size though this time we did get 4 eggs, 3 mature and 3 fertilised (day 5 4AB we transferred, a 4BB and a day 6 4AB that are now frozen). These 2 are so precious as I just don’t know how response to stims will go if has to be a next time.

Hi, I hope it's ok to join in. I've never posted on a forum before, but have been drawn to this thread so many times over the years and today especially I felt I needed to be in the company of those who understand the deep sorrow and feelings of impotence that can come with submitting yourself to the ivf process, particularly when it turns labyrinthine. I have also learnt a huge amount from the widsom and hard won experience shared on this thread, so thank you so much to everyone who has shared so much of themselves ❤️

I've just tested negative 8dp5dt transfer (fet) which has confirmed what my body already knew. It was our first FET following 4 fresh rounds. Round one was high stims (I had low AMH of 3.6 when tested two years ago - probably in the ground now - so that was felt appropriate). Body seemed to baulk at that approach and produced one sad and crotchety egg that failed to fertilize. Subsequent rounds were natural modified on which I produced between 4-8 eggs and we got between 2-4 blasts. The next two transfers failed and then I got pregnant this spring on number 4. After seeing a heartbeat at 8.5 weeks, we thought this might finally be our baby, but at a private scan at 11 weeks, we discovered I'd had MMC at 9 weeks. I still feel so devastated by this and by the way in which things were handled by the by the EPU (I ended up needing to have surgical management but this procedure was cancelled several times which just amped up the distress).

We've been trying to get pregnant since 2018, when I was 34, and have had two previous early miscarriages from natural pregnancies in 2019 and 2020. I have an appointment with St Mary's recurrent miscarriage clinic next week and the consultant at my clinic was willing to try chucking various things empirically at this transfer (extra progesterone, clexane, prednisolone. With aspirin added in if I had gotten a positive) but I just feel so defeated by it all. We have two more frozen blasts and whilst I know that should be a comfort, I just feel overwhelmed at the thought of having to open this wound again and totally convinced that this whole process is doomed to failure for us.

There is so much loss on this journey - of self, of imagined self, of relationships, of joy, of hope. It makes all the other sadnesses and difficulties that life throws at you feel that much more painful, knowing it's probably never going to be tempered by this longed for thing. I feel like the last three years especially have just been consumed by this and today I'm just gazing at the lonely wreckage of it all. Sorry for such an utterly utterly gloomy introduction. Sending thoughts and solidarity to everyone here x

Welcome @Peony00 thankyou for coming in and sharing your journey, I think your words will resonate with many of us here who have lost a significant part of our life on this journey with many of us still facing ongoing uncertainty.

I’m sorry to hear about your latest transfer result, I think the early miscarriage clinic is a good next step. I don’t know about this clinic, I know some will do some tests but only really touch the surface. But any tests you can get will be good.

@Enfys23 I don’t mean to dismiss your feelings by the way, you have had a rubbish day and you have every right to say well today absolutely sucked. It seemed like your clinic made it worst though which is really annoying! So first collection 1 blast and second collection 2 blasts, while the number of eggs collected is on the low side, the rate of blasts you’re getting is very good. How old are you? My friend has had similar results to you in her collections, it meant she needed to do embryo banking, this is rough but you can produce blasts which is a good sign.

@Peony00 sorry to hear how much you’ve had to endure, your words definitely resonate with many of us. I hope the miscarriage clinic can bring some answers and a plan. I always find it’s easier to face when you have the information and a plan of campaign. I’m so sorry it feels so awful right now. Take some time to get re-centred. It’s such a horrid long distance race.

@Gardenlady543 oh don’t worry I know, I didn’t think you were. Yes we’ve had 100% fertilisation rate, it was actually 3 blasts from the last stim, so yes I guess encouraging sign. I was 34 when last AMH check and first stims but turned 35 now. Embryo banking does seem like a good idea. I’m not able to do this on my x3 cycle refund package at present but I guess if it gets to beyond that we’d use the refund money for some embryo banking.

Oh my gosh I missed off @VenusStarr I know you wanted to take some time but meant to tag you so you know we are always here ❤️ it was because you started the last thread so you weren't in the list I was using of contributors to the last thread.

Your age is good news @Enfys23 that means your euploid rate will be high. Even with DOR my understanding is that the usual euploid rate for the age group applies. Will you be ok with one child? The issue with DOR is that your ability to get eggs and therefore embryos decreases over time, that's not an issue if you'd be happy with one child, but if you'd like more than one, now is your best time to bank embryos for future children as if you got pregnant soon it would likely be some time before you're ready to make embryos again. It's very difficult if you're on a package though, as they don't allow embryo banking.