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Infertility

Our Infertility Support forum is a space to connect with others in the same position, discuss causes, treatment and IVF, and share infertility stories of hope and success.

Things I’ve done/ Things I’ve tried IVF/ICSI

41 replies

Dochas1211 · 09/02/2022 14:29

Hi all, wanted to post this in case it helps anyone.

male factor infertility

Do not and I repeat DO NOT take a semen analysis as a full analysis of your partners fertility if you have sperm issues. It is so important to get a DNA frag test done too. If this test comes back high you need to get referred to a urologist to see if there is something they can do to improve the sperm. Yes you will likely still need to do IVF/ICSI but you have a better chance of it working if you’ve addressed DNA frag issues. Do not be put off by clinics telling you it doesn’t matter. It does!

Our story: did semen analysis. Count of 1mil. Told we would need ICSI. Did a round and all embryos dropped off days 3-5. Asked for a DNA frag test and was told by clinic it doesn’t matter/still need ICSI/ was too new to make a difference. I insisted. DNA frag came back at over 50% damaged. Insisted on postponing next round and getting a urology referral, found a huge hidden variocoele which was embolized. DNA frag dropped to 92%). I clearly wasn’t going to get pregnant doing 5 day transfers with an infected lining (always visually fine on scans).

  • Treated it with targeted antibiotics and then vaginal and oral probiotics (canesflor and optibac). Repeat test showed alot of improvement and good levels of good bacteria.
-the ERA also tests progesterone. Do not allow clinics to fob you off about progesterone . If you bleed early after transfer or have spotting and a failed transfer INSIST on a progesterone blood test. - I bled early after my first transfer. For second I asked for a progesterone test. I was scoffed at and told no one needs more progesterone than what I was on (x2 pessaries, 1 injection into stomach). I bled early again. The ERA showed my progesterone after 6 days of the above was 4!! It needs to be >52 and ideally above 100 for implantation. Again if I hadn’t pushed for the blood test I’d be doing pointless transfers with progesterone far too low. My progesterone was then monitored during the TWW every few days and I was put on progesterone in oil injections and my levels shot up.
  • This test also acts as a endometrial scratch
  • when I asked about this test re the emma/Alice ( I had already done one ERA) my consultant said he could always treat me without doing it - I.e. give me a course of antibiotics and then probiotics however the reason I went ahead with the test is that some types of bacteria need a targeted antibiotic to get rid of them and you won’t know this without doing the test. However if you are short on funds it could be worth asking for treatment without doing it.

test for natural killer cells

-Again I did this before recommended number of transfers - came back raised and that I needed steroids for transfer.

  • immunes is a very complex area with lots of different treatments so definitely do some research into it
  • if you feel you might have an immune issue but don’t want to get into testing my consultant did offer me low dose steroids alongside my transfer so you could always ask for this to be included as a precaution if you’ve had failed transfers. Could help but only if you’ve a non severe issue.

thrombophelia tests

-this came back fine but these tests can identify if you’re more at risk of miscarriage due to blood clotting disorder or if you’re unable to absorb folic acid in standard form. Usually done after 3 miscarriages again I got them done before transfer to see if Clexane was needed as I had
a limited number of embryos

Other

  • don’t be afraid to move clinics if it’s not working or you don’t feel listened to. I moved from my first clinic when they insisted DNA fragmentation didn’t exist
-I moved from my second clinic when they refused to check my progesterone or change anything from my failed transfer and wanted to repeat the same protocol. -At my 3rd clinic the consultant listened to me. He suggested we do embryo banking and then do all the tests I wanted pre doing a transfer even though they weren’t actually recommended at the stage we were at. He pro-actively came up with plans when the test results came back bad (re low progesterone and micro biome results)
  • don’t be afraid to travel for treatment. We travelled during level 5 lockdown in Ireland (where I’m from) to total lockdown in the UK and it was absolutely fine.
-don’t be afraid to insist on tests or to pursue your gut feeling about things -Ask the consultant about protocols! My 3rd consultant added in letrozole for the first 5 days of Stims and it did seem to help eggs collected. -be careful whose advice you take regarding clinic selection. Most people love the clinic that got them pregnant. Some people are trickier cases and in these cases I recommend doing some consultations and asking based on your history what protocol and tests they recommend. I know it’s expensive to do consults but failed rounds are far more expensive. I did several consults before moving to my U.K. clinic and almost tested them on whether it would be their standard protocol or whether they would think outside the box/ suggest something new / flag an issue. -same goes with additional testing - we spent half the cost of one round on extra testing and our next transfer worked. You can spend so much just doing the same thing over and over. -additional treatments: I did acupuncture, reflexology, hypnotherapy, fertility Pilates, fertility yoga, fertility mindfulness, lymphatic massage, very fad in the book (pineapple, McDonald’s, plastic free, no makeup etc etc). Enjoyed them all but none made a difference to the outcome of the different rounds/transfers. I wasn’t doing anything for the transfer that worked as it just wasn’t sustainable any more for me having been doing or preparing for IVF from 2018-2021! Do them if you enjoy them. Don’t do them thinking it’ll give you a better outcome or if you don’t enjoy them especially given the extra expense. Don’t put yourself under pressure. -do your own research / ask questions . There are some knowledgable people on this board who are good at responding. I have been on these boards in various names since I got my IVF referral back in 2018 and so many kind people helped me out
  • Go easy on yourself and do what you need to do to improve your mental health. I did not go to baby showers - I just declined the invite and sent a gift when baby was born. Amazon is great for baby gifts - send it on via Amazon and you don’t need to pick things out or go to baby shops. Cut yourself some slack - I hated my friends when they announced pregnancies. I just let myself feel what I felt and I tried not to guilt myself. I figured as long as I wasn’t saying anything to them it wasn’t hurting anyone that I was upset and angry. We are not bad people we’re just going through an extreme trauma. It’s ok to feel whatever you want and make decisions that put you first.
-I did see a fertility nutritionist who helped me lose around 24lbs in 3 months! Mainly weight gain from all the IVF. It was expensive but we’ve kept up some of the eating habits and know now what to do to lose weight while getting right amount of nutrition. Again something to consider if you’ve struggled with ivf weight gain.

Hope some of this might be of use to someone.

OP posts:
Dochas1211 · 09/02/2022 14:37

I should say on the immunes the treatment prescribed to me by the test centre place was IVIG and Intralipids but my consultant wasn’t keen to go so invasive and put me on steroids instead so you don’t necessarily need to go invasive if you don’t want to.

OP posts:
AliceAbsolum · 09/02/2022 18:13

Good post.
My clinic in North Cyprus basically shoves everything at it. Injections of progesterone, Steroids, anti biotics, hcg in a FET protocol, clexane, you name it, they do it. As standard.
Mildy freaked me out at first but that Dr was the only one who had got me pregnant in 6 years. And it's not expensive really.
The UK is shite for IVF. In my opinion.

IPK2022 · 09/02/2022 18:28

I haven’t been lucky enough to get to transfer stage yet but I have always wondered why clinics wouldn’t make sure everything was optimal before transfer - particularly the relatively simple steps of progesterone checks, clexane and antibiotics…

@Dochas1211 do you mind me asking which clinic / Doctor it was that what the extra mile?

Dochas1211 · 09/02/2022 20:14

@AliceAbsolum if you think the U.K. is bad you should try doing it in Ireland 😂🙈 I think there is no harm in your Cyprus clinics approach. It’s good you didn’t need to pay for all the extra testing. I know it’s more medications though so there is probably a trade off there.

@IPK2022 I know. I was point blank refused a progesterone test at my previous transfer even though I was going to be paying for it. I was already gowned up and heading for sedation for my embryo transfer so I felt too vulnerable to push it which is why I wanted to share my experience in the hopes a woman in a similar position won’t take no for an answer.

The clinic was Lister but as I said in the post I’m always wary of recommending clinics as everyone’s case and indeed experience is so different.

OP posts:
Dochas1211 · 09/02/2022 20:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SantoPalo · 09/02/2022 20:32

This is a very informative post OP, thanks 😊

IPK2022 · 09/02/2022 20:49

@Dochas1211 thanks so much! The Lister is on our list. It’s so good of you to share all of this info & the tips.

ohsheglows · 09/02/2022 21:07

Thank you so much for sharing this! I've just had my 3rd failed round and I'm just stuck with what I should do for my next round. I was on clexane, lubion and Prednisolone. My progesterone levels were checked and they were fine. I even used vaginal probiotics the month before. My hubby has dna frag but he was checked for everything, and was treated for a hidden infection.

I'm wondering now if I should do an ERA. I've also had the lister on my list too so I'm wondering if we should consider them now!

Natw22 · 09/02/2022 21:24

After 3 failed rounds in 12 months this was so helpful to read thank you 😊

Dochas1211 · 09/02/2022 21:49

@ohsheglows in your case I think an ERA/EMMA/ALICE is worth doing before you pay for another round. If you have bad bacteria in the lining the probiotics wouldn’t tackle that. You’d need antibiotics first or it could be the implantation window! Just bear in mind if you do the ERA and find your implantation window you would need to do a FET not fresh transfer to replicate it.

I had a great experience of Lister but I know others had bad experiences with them so do research the clinics. I don’t want to sell them as a magic solution! I hope you get success soon and best of luck.

OP posts:
ohsheglows · 09/02/2022 22:45

@Dochas1211 thanks for the advice - is this for a medicated FET? So if I decided to have a natural FET next time, would the ERA effectively be redundant?

Dochas1211 · 09/02/2022 22:52

@ohsheglows yes you would have to do the exact protocol that determined the implantation window to replicate it and in general a medicated ERA is what most clinics do. I have heard of people having a natural ERA ( I think at CRGH) so if you wanted to do a natural transfer you could discuss this with your consultant but if you then wanted to move to a Medicated transfer if natural didn’t work the implantation window found in natural would be no good.

OP posts:
ohsheglows · 09/02/2022 23:01

@Dochas1211 thank you that's great to know. Honestly I really appreciating you coming up with this post. I've been crying all evening. I've never even seen a hint of a positive test and I just never thought at the age of 31 I would be at the point where I might not be able to have biological children!

TheHopefulEgg · 10/02/2022 06:57

This is so helpful and has filled me with so much hope. We’re on a similar path and covering all bases before EC. Only difference is I’ll be having EC after 8 weeks of following my nutrition/supplement “regime”, but then I did spend over a month eating well beforehand and have been taking good quality supplements for a while. What’s not on my side is age so every month I wait I’m essentially eating into what will be a four month process from EC to FET. I’ve had six miscarriages so hoping ICSI IVF with PGT-A gets us through (and off) this hellish ride!

Dochas1211 · 10/02/2022 09:18

@ohsheglows we’ve been there and hit rock bottom after 3 rounds of IVF. Proper both me and DH crying in the floor of our hallway about this being it. I know everyone is different emotionally , financially and physically on how long they can keep on this rollercoaster. I don’t want to sell this post as the holy grail that will get everyone pregnant - there are too many unknowns but there are things you can try that do seem important and for some reason don’t get flagged to people who are struggling which is why I wanted to post it - like I said the ERA/EMMA/ALICE and progesterone results were so messed up for me and none of that was picked up on in my 1st 3 rounds.

@TheHopefulEgg I’m so sorry to hear about your miscarriages. I hope this new approach works. I think 2 months for proper nutritional plan is fine given you’ve been eating healthily before then - it is important to consider age and other factors too.

I should say other things we were looking into were using human growth hormone during Stims and also ovarian rejuvenation PRP. I saw a ‘fertility detective’ type person who recommended the PRP and gave me some information on it. If anyone wants that down the line just PM me and I’ll try copy and paste it for you.

OP posts:
TheHopefulEgg · 10/02/2022 11:32

@Dochas1211 is human growth hormone relevant if your AMH is okay? I haven’t heard of ovarian rejuvenation PRP. I think a friend who has diminished reserve may have mentioned it. But then I’ve barely got my head around all the basic IVF terminology. Will consult Dr Google Grin

I believe most of my issues lie with the environment. We know part of the picture is MFI and possibly egg health as we’ve had at least one loss due to chromosomal abnormalities. I know it’s quality over quantity thing and I’m not feeling overly confident, hence we’re ramping up nutrition and supplements.

Just trying to wrap my head around it all again this morning and make sure I have everything I need!

Phrenologistsfinger · 10/02/2022 14:34

@TheHopefulEgg I have been prescribed HGH and my AMH is 20.7 at age 39. I had a lot of follicles last time round but one ovary was empty, so taking human growth hormone for that. It is meant to also help egg quality too.

Dochas1211 · 10/02/2022 15:32

Similar to @Phrenologistsfinger I was going to try it as I am a poor responder to Stims.

If you believe it’s environment @TheHopefulEgg are you planning to bank some normals then do immune/environment testing or what has been suggested?

OP posts:
TheHopefulEgg · 10/02/2022 15:55

I have AMH of 20.4 at 38 so it’s something I might need, but I suppose it won’t be apparent until EC @Phrenologistsfinger. I’ve had a quick look online to see how you can increase HGH naturally and it seems I’m doing most of the right things; intermittent fasting/no food before bed, arginine supplementation, no refined sugar, melatonin to improve sleep, losing bodyfat. I don’t think I could possibly fit another supplement in anyway Grin

TheHopefulEgg · 10/02/2022 16:02

@Dochas1211 in approx 6-8 weeks it’s EC, following cycle PGT-A results so no procedures then, cycle after that is hysteroscopy, endometrio and immune testing, then all going well we’ll do FET with a healthy embryo next again cycle. Four cycles away feels a long way off! But I’m happy with the process and it feels well thought out.

I’m doing a vaginal microbiome test through my nutritionist this week so that will hopefully give me an idea of what I’m facing. And give me a chance to do some targeted treatment in advance of those endometrio tests.

Dochas1211 · 10/02/2022 16:16

@TheHopefulEgg that all sounds good and 4 months isn’t too bad. After our 3rd failed cycle we also took a step back and it took a full year from then until successful transfer with embryo banking and the additional testing.

OP posts:
TheHopefulEgg · 10/02/2022 16:42

Yeah I’m conscious it could take a lot longer and four months is fine in the grand scheme if things. We’re trying again after a two year break so I guess part of me just wants to fast forward. But then I’m also grateful to have the opportunity to do this at all and feel as though we’re doing everything we can now.

Fairyfolks · 11/02/2022 15:01

Hi jumping in here I hope you don’t mind!! After trying for two years and doing 6 months of TSI we are finally embarking on ICSI. I have mild PCOS which was only picked up during testing to see what was going wrong. I’m 28 by the way!! Thanks for the post it’s so informative!!! I can see you did it in Ireland? How did you find the whole ordeal here?

IsabelHerna · 16/02/2022 12:28

@Dochas1211 I just want to say a huge thank you for sharing your story and everything. It's really important and it helps a lot of us x

99pctpractice · 22/03/2022 23:15

@Dochas1211 thanks so much for sharing your story. Would you be able to share with me the information about prp? I've been reading up on it and any more intel would be helpful! I've been trying to find out if any clinics in the uk offer it, but so far the closest seems to be Madrid...