Does anybody take a probiotic?

[IamnotwhouthinkIam]

I was looking at probiotics to help with gut health during IVF (possibly it's also supposed to help with full body wellbeing too). Does anybody take one and if so what brand? And when do you take it - in the morning on an empty stomach? (I already take egg quality supplements then - NAC and ALA, so I'm not sure if it would interfere).

Sorry for all the questions but thanks for any help!

I have done in the past, but decided i was fed up of pills what will all the IVF meds, plus supplements etc, so i just take an Actimel immune system drink and have yogurt most days. I make sure it's one that says it contains live cultures in it, preferably a natural one that isn't full of sugar. I figured if i ate a healthy amount of fruit & veg each day, along with the above, that should be good enough.

I have done but be careful with it. I started taking a probiotic supplement to help my many issues (skin, for gut health etc) and I ended up with too much “good bacteria” and thrush-style infection that wasn’t responding to Canesten. I think it’s called Cytolytic vaginosis (CV) and I didn’t even know it was possible at the time I took them, but it stopped after I stopped taking the supplements and had my period.

Obviously not everyone gets it, but of course my easily upset bacterial balance did

Thanks @IslandStars - I'll look at the Actimel drink. I already eat some natural bio yogurt daily and get at least 5 potions of fruit and veg a day but I keep having to take antibiotics for a recurring eye infection, so I was considering topping up my "good" bacteria in case it helps.

Thanks @thislittlebird for the warning. I didn't know you could have too much good bacteria and I'm never heard of CV so that's really interesting to know. I was looking at a Pre -Natal Probiotic with 20 billion bacteria - which does sound a lot!

I used to. I had the opposite to @thislittlebird and found I had thrush maybe 2 or 3 times a year and the probiotics did stop that. I think I remember getting one specifically for vaginal health and I also think I remember sticking it right in there to help (not all these supplements have bacteria that can survive the gut to get anywhere else). I looked into it at the time but can't remember much about it now 138 supplements later

Didn't help my fertility I don't think, but I would certainly take them if I'd had antibiotics. Can't hurt.

Thanks very much for the advice about looking for ones that might survive the gut @Yokey . And I'll definitely consider searching for ones you can use vaginally if I get thrush (a possibility due to the progesterone pessaries I'll have to go on). I know what you mean about the supplements - I'm on so many for "egg quality", I feel like I rattle!

Since it's just for gut health at the moment, I think I'm going to try the general Bio Kult ones since I can easily get them in the supermarket/Boots and they say they are suitable both for use with antibiotics and during pregnancy (which means I can't see them doing any harm during future stimming/egg collection either). They get decent reviews online but I'll have to wait and see if they'll work for me.

@IamnotwhouthinkIam I had no idea either! It’s all sold as good for you (which is often is) but the drawbacks are not discussed. Mine had 45 billion, which was clearly too many. I’m sticking to kefir from now on, hopefully that will help me out a little.

It’s also worth researching the right kind of good bacteria you might, some do specific strains, I think.

@Yokey I had thrush that much too and then the opposite to boot, lucky me

Thanks again for the warning @thislittlebird .Yes, I've seen ones advertised at up 50 Billion - and they're usually more expensive so it makes you think they would be "better". The one I've chosen has only 4 Billion per 2 tablets though - so may have the opposite problem and not be enough! Time will tell, although as it has 14 different strains (compared to the 2 or 3 in my natural yogurt), hopefully some of them will help.

I've thought about trying Kefir too instead of yogurt - was concerned it might be too tangy and liquidy but it sounds like it's worth a go.

@IamnotwhouthinkIam there’s some good websites and blogs around if you do choose to look into strains. I saw one person (maybe a doctor or some other health person) say they’d seen an increase in women with thrush symptoms the last few years and realised there might be a link to the uptake of probiotics and that it was actually CV. It was very interesting!

Kefir is a little sharp when you first try it but not bad, you get used to it. it’s supposed to be very good for this stuff. I buy flavoured ones or I buy natural and whizz some frozen fruit up into it. I actually really like the “baked” natural one now, without other flavours. You only need to drink a small amount each day if you use it so there’s that bonus. There’s lots you can eat too, Yeo Valley do a nice mango and passionfruit yogurt style one you eat!

Let me know how you get on, hope you find it beneficial.

Thanks @thislittlebird - the baked Kefir does look very good, but my local supermarket only has a small range, so I'll just pop the "ordinary" one in my basket next week and see how I go (might mix it with natural yogurt at first till I get used to the taste - the fruit ones look lovely but I'd rather not have the added sugar unless I need it to stomach it, I can always add fruit myself as you suggested).

Thanks also for advice about looking at different strains - I've read conflicting things about which of the Lactobacillus strains are most helpful for fertility and general vaginal health - so I've decided that by taking a probiotic that contains a variety, hopefully some of them will be useful. I'll report back in a couple of months if my digestion/gut health has improved (I don't think there's any way of knowing if they'll help my fertility, as I'm also trying various supplements for egg health!).

@IamnotwhouthinkIam yeah I have the same issue and agree regarding the sugar with varieties in the shop but the natural one is ok once you adjust or add some fruit. I’m trying to kick start myself to eat better at the moment and weather is making me revert back to winter mode!

I’ve been reading a really interesting book on the gut lately, it’s such a fascinating topic! I’m on the supplements too. Got my first fertility appointment this week so need to be well behaved after this really.

@thislittlebird - I don't think the small amount of sugar would matter if you are being fairly good otherwise. But I'm reluctant to give up my daily and much enjoyed dark choc bar, so I suppose any added extra counts! Good luck with your appointment .

So I'm quite interested in this topic. I've always been into probiotic foods, I had my own water kefir at home for years, made my own fermented vegan cheese, was constantly making fermented recipes from a book on the subject, I even went on a course called Go Fermental.

After 2 unsuccessful IVF transfers I had a lot of tests, one of them looked at the microflora in my uterus, I had 0.00% lactobacillus (good bacteria), I was under a specialist who knows about lining issues and they couldn't believe the result given my health diet. It probably happened because I had a coil which must have taken up dysbiotic bacteria and once they set up home the only thing that would shift them was a course of antibiotics. IVF procedures and surgery is also felt to put people at a higher risk of dysbiotic microflora. After 7 days of antibiotics I then took 10 days of vaginal probiotics, I've attached the list the lab recommended.

I also take an oral one called femdophilus, there are studies showing that this improves the microflora in the genital tract. There are lots of different forms of probiotics and it's important to take one which is going to have an impact in the uterus.

I am now having a FET, so far they say the lining looks good in quality but I won't know for sure until transfer day. As soon as I started the treatment I stopped feeling sore, I actually hadn't realized I'd even been sore, but it's likely I've had undiagnosed bacterial vaginosis for some time.

I'm hoping the microflora issues will explain why I've never been successful to date. There is evidence about how important the microflora is. This study https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ajog.2016.09.075 separated women with more than 90% lactobacillus vs those with less than 90% lactobacillus, the outcomes were statistically significant:
Implantation 60.7% vs 23.1%
Pregnancy 70.6% vs 33.3%
Ongoing pregnancy 58.8% vs 13.3%
Live birth 58.8% vs 6.7%

So from my experience:

• I would recommend that if anyone is considering an ERA then get the EMMA and ALICE to look at the bacteria at the same time.

• If you're worried about your microflora but you aren't in a position to have the endometrial biopsy, then you might want to consider a vaginal swab. There are companies that will tell you the microflora in the vagina for about £200, it hopefully will give some indication of what the microflora in the uterus might look like. This can be important because if dysbiotic bacteria are found then probiotics alone may not shift it, as in my case, the swab would hopefully help identify the most appropriate antibiotic.

• By all means take probiotics that will help your gut but if you're looking for one that improves the genital tract flora then I'd go for something like femodophilus. Another one that I’ve heard of is this one which is a prenatal vitamin that has probiotics in it https://www.nuafertility.com/nuabiome-women/

Thanks very much @charly678 - that's really interesting! I'm already taking the mentioned Bio -Kult one for general maintenance and unfortunately I don't think I could stomach the Symprove anyway, no matter how good it is!

But I'm going to read up on the Invivo one for vaginal health - as based on reviews I've just started/added Jarrow Fem dolphius to try to stop thrush recurring (caused by weeks of anti biotics), but the Invivo has more strains that I recognize from research papers as being good for vaginal microflora.

Thanks very much for the advice @Gardenlady543 . I've just started taking the Fem dophilus too (taking 2 a day but I've only been on them for a few days so far). As far as I know, I've not had BV symptoms- I'm pretty sure it's thrush I've had/got the remains of, caused by over a month of antibiotics for an unrelated issue.

Hopefully the antibiotics (doxycycline which is apparently sometimes given during IVF anyway in case of infections) will have killed most of the "bad" bacteria, even in the vagina - but according to my googling, getting a yeast infection after a while of antibiotics is not uncommon .

Thanks also for the list - really useful in case I need them in the future. Though fingers crossed the Fem dophilus will help to replenish any lactobacilli I've lost once I've been on it long enough.

Ooh fascinating updates to this thread! I have unexplained infertility and IVF worked for me. But I did take doxycycline for something else before IVF and, as I said upthread, probiotics too. Perhaps the microflora issues @Gardenlady543 mentions have been an issue for me?? Could be. Thanks for the info. I had always assumed it was just another highly unlikely culprit in terms of my infertility (though of course I took the probiotics in hope) but maybe there is more to it.

It's really interesting @Yokey that it could have helped your IVF succeed! From my reading I think a course of antibiotics like Doxycycline are often given as standard practice for IVF in some countries (sometimes throughout the whole cycle, sometimes just for a week depending on clinic). I think the idea is that it's a relatively cheap add on to hopefully kill any "bad" bacteria already present in the vagina or potentially introduced during the IVF procedures.

For this reason I really wanted to stay on the antibiotics in case it could help my chances this cycle (my doctor was fine with it, even though it doesn't seem standard practice to put you on them in UK clinics). But I figure thrush and/or the potential depletion of "good" bacteria could reduce my chances so I'd better not risk continuing. Why is nothing ever simple !

@Yokey I mean when I first heard about microflora I didn't think it would have had that much impact, then I read a book on preparing the endometrium in IVF and it became clear how important it is. In my case I've never had a BFP ever and it's pretty much the only thing that might explain it.

@IamnotwhouthinkIam I thought the same about the antibiotics clinics give, some of the more specialised clinics put everyone on antibiotics. In one study that looked at femodophilus 75% of the participants ended up with normal microflora after just one dose of antibiotics and then taking femodophilus. I think if I had any form of antibiotic in the last 7.5 years since the coil went in my uterus would have had a chance to get at least some good bacteria in it.

My thoughts are this is such an easy fix, I hope this is the reason things haven't worked for me and I just wonder how many "unexplained infertility" patients also have this issue that very few clinics explore.

@Gardenlady543 - it's very interesting isn't it! I really hope it's the thing that makes a difference for you (and for me - I've never had a BFP either and this was my first time taking antibiotics since long before I started my rounds of IUI/IVF).

Thanks for the info on the Fem dolphilus study. I'm currently debating how long to stay on them for - they are quite pricey, especially if I keep taking 2 tablets a day! But it will be worth it if they can help, and it's good that the manufacturer says you can take them during pregnancy too (fingers crossed ).

Whilst trying to conceive… for ages now!!!.. I was getting constant bouts of BV which was getting me down. I did some research about probiotics and decided to try it. I bought some garden of life, raw probiotics vaginal care from Amazon, I was a little sceptical and they were on the more pricey side, but I can honestly say they’ve completely made me better straight away, and I couldn’t recommend them enough. I know they may not work for everyone but they maybe worth a try. I am still TTC but have had no BV since taking them. They may help with other problems. I also stopped taking baths and started eating small amounts of fermented foods in my sandwiches. I think some of the yogurts are packed with sugar so I’ve avoided them

Thanks for the info @Kphil1 .The Garden of Life one looks really interesting and contains a lot of different stains so that's great - 85 million wow! (the one I'm taking at the moment is only 2 million). But it contains other vitamins (which might be a lot when taking a prenatal as well?) and doesn't seem to mention on the website if it is pregnancy safe unlike some other brands. However it is really great to know it helped you, and definitely worth considering if I don't conceive this round or for general heath. Good point as well about the sugary yogurts too, I do avoid those (and baths!) but I have a bit of a chocolate addiction which isn't great , so a bar or two dark choc a day probably negates no sugar in other foods !

@IamnotwhouthinkIam I am not normally one to recommend products because what works for one person may not work for another, but this was really life changing for me (however silly that sounds) so I thought I would pass it on. Knowing how much difference a supplement can make after a matter of days really has heightened my awareness of how important it is about whatever you are putting in your body… it makes a really big impact I guess we are not always aware of. I have a dark chocolate addiction too… can’t give up all the nice things!!

@Kphil1 - Can I ask how long did you take it for?

Thanks again, it's wonderful to know what probiotics have helped people

@IamnotwhouthinkIam two months now, but I noticed a difference after a week