Embryo Banking Support Thread / PGS wait

[ForeverAintEnough]

Hi all, I’ve just name changed but I’ve been on here loads and chatting to many of you under different user names ( irrational fear of being outed!). I wondered if there was interest in a ‘no transfer happening’ group? So those doing embryo banking or PGS or whatever.

I’ve just done one round of embryo banking and found the normal threads difficult with discussion of hoping for a Christmas pregnancies etc.

We are unfortunately taking the long way round with 3 rounds and no transfer. It looks like my first transfer might not be until June 2021.

If anyone wants to jump on feel free!

About us: Me 34, DH 36, TTC 3 years. Both male and female issues. x3 rounds of IVF all failed. Moved clinic to Lister for 3 rounds of embryo banking and PGS. One round of embryo banking just finished with x3 blasts sent off for PGS testing.

Hello @ForeverAintEnough12 11 is really good, hope they’re mostly of a good size or you have a few extra by EC. Hopefully that’s a good number for finding a normal embryo. The time it all takes is so frustrating, I had no idea before I started IVF, thought it would take half the time it does in reality.

Hi all - I hope you don't mind me joining. I have been following the thread without posting and have found it really helpful, so thank you.

For those who have some normal embryos, have you been given any advice by your clinics on the impact of the grading of the embryo? I have just finished my third cycle and after two not great cycles (1 and then 0 normal) I have had a really good round (better than I could have hoped) which I think means I am probably done, but they are not great quality in terms of grading and my clinic didnt give me much advice on that aspect...

Grateful for any views :)

Hi @Shamoo welcome and congrats on getting a normal already! I’ve often read that the lower grade morphology blasts often end up being normal so you might get more normals from this round than you’d think. From what I’ve read normal is much more important than grade in predicted a pregnancy.

When do you get your results back?

@Shamoo Welcome, glad the thread has been helpful. The embryologists always told me not to get too fixated with the grading, since I was doing PGS. They said a normal embryo matters more and I too have heard many cases where the lower grades were the normal ones.

I had a 5AA and plenty of 5BBs but none were normal. My two euploid were a 6CA and the 6BB I’m hopefully transferring soon.

Hope you get another normal from this round. How many embryos did you get in cycle 1 in order to find your normal?

Hi @IslandStars and @ForeverAintEnough12- thank you both for your replies and support. Sorry it has taken me a little while to reply.

For background, I had two rounds of IVF with no genetic testing - which led to 10 embryos, and with those I had 1 not defrost properly, 2 MMC, 1 chemical pregnancy (from a double transfer), 2 no implantation (both 5AAs) and 3 still on ice. At that stage the doctors told me it was likely my age and egg quality, so I moved to PGS testing. I decided not to defrost the 3 remaining ones to test, in case of damage. I may change my mind in due course though. I was 38 with the first fresh round and 39 with the second.

I then had two rounds with PGS testing in the later part of last year (at 40). It was with a different donor and they didn’t go nearly as well in terms of numbers. The first of those two cycles I got two blastocysts, one of which was normal (a day 6 3BC). The second cycle I got one blastocyst which was no good.

This cycle I gave myself a break over Christmas etc before hand, and went back to the first donor. It’s gone really well and I got 7 blastocysts (5 day 5 and 2 day 6). I am probably of the view that at this stage I have had so many blastocysts that if I don’t get any more good ones, I may quit and just go with what I have. We have used all our sperm from both donors. I’m not sure I can face another cycle. Easy to say though, I suspect I may not be able to resist.

These 7 range from 3BB to 3BC from day 5 and 4AA to 3CB from day 6.

I should say I am very lucky in that I am gay and my wife is currently 28 weeks pregnant so, touchwood, we will have a family. But I am still very keen for my own generic child (and to carry if I possibly can) too.

When are you hoping to transfer @IslandStars? a 6BB sounds very good!

@ForeverAintEnough12 - sorry I meant to say, some time next week. Not sure of the day though. They don’t give exact dates!

@Shamoo Congratulations on you & your wife’s pregnancy, that’s fantastic and 28 weeks gone too!

It sounds like you do have some level of implantation yourself, which is a good sign, but appreciate the MMC and chemical have been tough to go though. Hopefully PGS will be the answer. I’d say of the 3 remaining which you’re not testing yet, perhaps 1 stands a good chance of being normal since the other transfers didn’t work out. If it comes to it and you eventually decide not to do another full round, it might be worth transferring the 3 untested (not all at once! ) and letting nature take its course.

My transfer date should be around mid May. Both of my embryos had already hatched, so they were keen! Just hoping after tweaking the protocol and adding some medication, it will help this one implant.

@IslandStars thanks for your reply.

Will be sending really positive vibes your way. You are starting from a great place of a PGS embryo which is a really good quality! Hopefully they get the medication right for you. You have been so kind to everyone on this thread (and I have seen you in other threads as well). I have everything crossed for you.

You are totally right, worst case scenario we will transfer the frozen ones I already have (after the one PGS one I have). One at a time 😂 We are debating who will try to carry it, I would love to but I do worry I have other issues. I do know I have a funny shaped uterus which won’t be helping - they said maybe operate but it could cause complications. Everything is so complicated!

@ForeverAintEnough12 hope it all goes well for you next week 🤞

@Shamoo Thank you, that's a lovely thing to say! It's good you've got several options at this stage. I know you what you mean about everything being so complicated, there's always something else to worry about!

Thanks @Shamoo 8 eggs collected and 4 embryos in the running on day 1. Hoping that 1-2 might make it. Last time we had 8 embryos and got 3 blasts so I’m worried we might end up with nothing.

We decided against the PGS testing on this round. If it’s only 2 max we figured we would just transfer them back and not bother the risk of damaging them.

Not very happy with the clinic this time. When I came round after egg collection the nurse said the consultant was very surprised the collection was difficult - which she shouldn’t have been as it’s in my notes that I have a difficult collection so I hope she didn’t kiss any eggs messing around as I had 11-12 good sized follicles at my last scan!!! Also realised today no one confirmed our embryos were in the embryoscope - we had this last time and presumed we were getting the same package so I’m a bit annoyed if they aren’t in there. I feel like we have to always remind clinics of everything. I was nervous and didn’t say to consultant beforehand it was going to be difficult and also we paid over phone and they didn’t say do you want X Y or Z extras and I didn’t double check arghhhh

@ForeverAintEnough12 Really hope you get a couple of blasts, women often do with fewer eggs and sometimes they’re better quality too. I’d leave the PGS too if you get under 2.

Agree it’s so frustrating when we have to chase up clinics and remind them of everything. I don’t think you should feel bad for not mentioning a difficult collection though, your mind would have been all over the place when you’re about to undergo a major procedure! We put our money and trust in clinics to prepare the consultants properly with notes, especially as it’s not your first time, so they should have your history.

For my 3rd cycle I had 10 follicles supposedly ready, but I only got 7 eggs and there was no issue with any of my collections, so it can happen by chance sometimes. Fingers crossed for the next few days.

Sorry I haven’t replied for a while. I’ve just started my third cycle tonight... I went for a scan this morning which was probably day 1 and not day 2 and the consultant just said, no cysts start the cycle. I said but what about the AFC and he said ‘oh we won’t know that until day 6’. But that’s not what’s happened before :( so I asked him to check and he basically looked for like 2 secs and just said oh two one side two the other but just take the medication and we’ll see on Tues. Did you all get told your AFC on day 2? Why has he said this to me? I don’t know what I’ll do if I only have 4 bloody follicles on Tues. I’m also struggling with not knowing whether the 4 embryos I have are normal or not and then scared that because of my autoimmune condition that even if one is normal then my body will reject it. I asked him about transferring two rather than one because it may be likely that one isn’t normal and he said that if I miscarried one then it could make the normal miscarry too... and then said that if you transfer separately then the success rate is cumulatively better. I haven’t opted for PGS testing because my first ever IVF round I didn’t even get past day 1... but now I’m worried that maybe I should have. I don’t think that I can mentally take it if the transfers don’t work... Because of Covid I’ve been in the shielding category and I haven’t seen my friends for so long.. but now I’ve reached the stage where I don’t even want to see anyone. I am so overwhelmed with this process. Would appreciate any words of support 😣

@ForeverAintEnough12 keeping my fingers crossed for your 4, and that you get at least a couple of good ones. I know how stressful this period is so hope you are doing ok. Totally understand your decision on PGS, I made the same decision in my second round where my numbers weren’t great (ended up with 3 actually but still feel I made the right decision at that time in my journey).

Sorry to hear that you are disappointed with your clinic. They really should know you properly and give you the right care. It’s so disappointing when clinics don’t get it right.

@Moonstarsun I’m really sorry you are finding it so tough at the moment. IVF is lonely and isolating, but I have to say I think anybody who makes it through is a warrior, and you are amazing for putting one foot in front of the other each day, taking your injections and doing your best. If you are really struggling, make sure you are gentle with yourself - nice food, lots of sleep and rest, take it easy and have some treats.

When I reallly don’t want to see people normally means I really need to, so maybe try and talk to somebody who will be kind and gentle with you? You know yourself and your needs best though. Just be kind to yourself.

In terms of scan and AFC, I don’t think they have looked at me in detail day 2. My clinic actually has you start drugs day 2, without needing a scan. Scan needs to be done day 5 (I think, maybe 6) and so they don’t count properly until then. Last cycle I went In day 4 for my first scan, then had to go back day 5/6 again as they demanded a day 5/6 one. It’s all quite confusing but they definitely don’t require a detailed review on day 2.

Sending you lots of support x

Hi all, sorry I have been sick the last weeks, nasty kidney infections and multiple travels to A&E, sorry if I lost track

@ForeverAintEnough12 4 is really not bad, i hope you will receive some good news. I also understand your point of view, not testing this cycle and transferring all. I have thought about that, if my 2 normal fail and i cycle one more time. But I am so scared of losing a pregnancy again, 6 was enough. Thinking of you.

@IslandStars you are having your transfer mid may, with clexan and steroids, I am glad! My 1st transfer of normal embryo will be mid may too! We have decided to do the FET based on my natural cycles. They have increased my dose of heparin but decided against steroids, for this time at least. I am trying to get pfizer vaccinated. Both my 2 normal were from 1st cycle FYI...

@Moonstarsun during my 2nd cycle, they didn't really care about baseline AFC, as follicles were appearing with simulations. I cant say, dont be too worried, cause that's quite difficult and we get anxious everyone we go for a scan. I hope all will go well for this cycle, you are doing your best already!

@Shamoo welcome to this group! And congratulations on your wife pregnancy :) I hope you will be successful too!

PGS, not PGS, that's quite a debate... I call it the eye of Satan, even though it is scientifically justified. I am glad we did it, but I hope it didn't damaged our 2 embryos... however i couldn't possibly not do it, and transferring embryos and miscarrying. I am glad we live in UK; where I am from, France, this is only allowed for coupes with a genetic disease, known equilibrated translocation, etc. But that's it. Narrow minded these French.

God I am so tired. Yesterday my consultant told me that us having a successful pregnancy will be his main success for the whole year... don't know what to think of that. He is very dedicated to his patients, so I think he means well. I don't want to believe that he has the feeling it would be a miracle..

Be strong all; sending lots of support and thinking of you xxx

S.

Thanks everyone. Glad to see everyone is progressing in one way or another. It’s such a difficult process. Hope everyone has a good weekend xx

@Moonstarsun Sorry you’re having a tough time. Totally get these moments of stress when it’s all so over whelming. I’ve never had a day 1/2 scan to start the cycle either. Always day 6, 8 & 10 for me then EC.

As for double transfers, some consultants do seem to be of the opinion that one embryo can negatively impact on the other. I’ve also read that the pregnancy stats are no higher than single transfer, but I think many of us reach the point where we see having a double as potentially saving time and money.

I’m having the same issue about not wanting to meet up with friends. I turned down a beer garden catch up this week and now my best friend who I havent seen since September wants to meet up, but I’ve got all these FET meds to take soon. Besides needing to stay safe, I also just need to be at home in the evening to take all the damn meds I now have after my failed transfer! Haven’t told my friend about IVF so that’s another issue. Was waiting to do it in person, but now I just don’t have the energy for the conversation!

@Sophfr17 Wow you’ve had a tough time, hope you are feeling much better now, sounds nasty. Glad we’re on similar time lines for FET, sounds like you have a good protocol in place. Hope you manage to get Pfizer in time. I got my first jab after my last transfer failed. So it’s some extra safety, but I will not take the second one if I get pregnant as I had AZ.

Your consultant sounds like he’s taken a really personal approach with you, as you have other health issues to consider, so I’m sure he just wants to achieve the best for you.

Stay well everyone, here’s hoping for a good month ahead x

Hi all. Got the call today - only one made it to blast and has been frozen. So we are disappointed as we’re hoping for 2 but it’s better than none. Planning to just go ahead now with a FET. We have 4 frozen embryos that are untested a 4AA, 5AA, 3AA and 3BB so fingers crossed one of those might be normal. Two are completely untested and two came back inconclusive from PGS so 🤷‍♀️

@Moonstarsun I’m sorry you’re having a hard time. It’s all very stressful. I have the same worry about whether any of the embryos are normal. I am sure there are things your consultant could do to check for how your immune system might impact. Definitely advocate for yourself and make sure you are happy everything has been explored before doing a transfer. How is your round going? I wouldn’t worry too much about the baseline scan Antral follicle count. On my latest round they found 16, but then when stoking found only 6 and then a few more showed up so it’s all over the place. The end result is all that matters.

@Sophfr17 @IslandStars that’s exciting you’re both gearing up for FETs - are you guys doing anything in particular to prepare for them?

@Shamoo thanks for your kind words. Sorry I didn’t keep track of where you are at. Are you all gearing up for FET?

@ForeverAintEnough12 Glad you got something from this cycle. Overall your embryos are really good grades with the best possible amount of cells, so hopefully there is at least 1 normal in there and you can just find out by transferring rather than more time delay and risk PGS being inconclusive again.

I’m on my day 1 today, will have my first scan next week then hopefully book the transfer. I was thinking if i should do anything different this time, but I always eat healthy in general and get enough exercise, plus take supplements. Think I’ll just have to hope the increased meds on this protocol will help implantation.

@ForeverAintEnough12 - I’m really glad you got one, and your grades are excellent overall for your 4 so that’s fantastic. Probability dictates you have at least one good one in there, so fingers crossed. I can understand you feel a bit deflated but they are great embryos! I have a few BCs in my mix but hoping they may be strong enough!

I am waiting for my follow up with my consultant on Friday to finalise a plan, but not going to FET for a while as my wife is pregnant. After my last miscarriage and a poor cycle we decided to go with her so we had something positive (and thankfully it seems to have worked). So I have some time to form a plan!!

@ForeverAintEnough12 Meant to ask, are you considering double transfer?

@Shamoo exciting times ahead for you with your wife. I do think you are right to keep going with a plan for your FET - if any tests or anything meds to be done we all know it can take ages. If you had good plan ready to go you can relax , enjoy your new arrival and know that all is in place for you.

@IslandStars I would be confident the changes they’ve made will make a difference for you. It sounds like they’re being very proactive and thinking about your immune system, bloods etc. Good luck with it all and keep us posted here.

I would only do a single transfer. I’d be too afraid of twins and the potential complications. I know a girl who has twins after her ivf and lost them both at 24 weeks. So difficult. At least chance of pre term goes down with a single pregnancy.

Hey!
Not sure this FET will happen after all.... my clinic/hospital has been quite disorganized lately and i still haven't done the 3D-SIS and Dummy embryo transfer..... Day 1 should be this saturday, so the nurses says that i could have both done around day 6, while being scanned to track my ovulation. Once ovulation would have happened, they would give my all the progesterone needed and the transfer could happend around day 19.
Does that seem realistic to you? The 3D-SIS, the dummy transfert and the real embryo transfer on the SAME cycle?
I am so scared there will be a delay.... You all have been through these stages, I hope you will be able to reassure me on that. The consultant will call be back soon, i am completely lost, and so are they it seems... xxx

@Sophfr17 I think they could be done same cycle but I would want the consultant to explain what they hope to learn from the 3S-SIS . If they think it might uncover an issue I wouldn’t want to then put an embryo back in before that issue has resolved? Which might mean delaying. I haven’t had one of those before so I’m not sure what it’s for.

The dummy transfer could be done beforehand for sure. Have you had any difficulties with access for egg collection? If not I’d expect a dummy transfer to go fine.